1980-P Lincoln Cent Orange Peel Effect

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by SF11Dude, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    No problem, just wanted to share that the editors of Error-ref.com define the term orange peel as being caused by die wear, not copper/zinc interface or plating issues.

    Maybe you could "coin" a new name for this type of anomaly ;)
     
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  3. GSDykes

    GSDykes Well-Known Member

    First I shall present an image, then I shall consider if it is true "orange peel" as defined by others, or if it is a "new" anomaly.
    Gary in Washington
     
  4. GSDykes

    GSDykes Well-Known Member

    Below is a typical orange peel surface on a 1989 D Lincoln cent. Note you will not find these surfaces on pre-1982 cents! Click to zoom in.

    orange_peel_1.jpg
    Gary in Washington
     
  5. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I'll think I'll stick with the definition that Weinberg, Sullivan, and Diamond have listed in error-ref.com. No sense in confusing things by using a term that describes a worn die to describe a possible plating issue. However, if you feel strongly that the 2 different nonconformances should have the same name, knock your socks off.

    Or are you proposing that the defect on the copper plated cents is due to die wead?
     
  6. GSDykes

    GSDykes Well-Known Member

    Copper plated zinc planchets are not annealed before striking.

    David Lange refers to the bubbly surface on some of the new

    CZ coins as: pimples or raised dots. He states that these occur

    when trapped or occluded gas under the copper coating is com-

    pressed when the strike is made. (The Complete Guide to Lincoln

    Cents, David W. Lange. page 267. Bowers and Merena Galleries,

    2005.). Most of the ensuing coins having this "problem"

    display a mild textured effect, much like the skin of an orange,

    hence I refer to them as "orange-peel" texture. No new

    nomenclature is required. Show me a worn die effect matching

    these seen of the CZ coins!! If it matches this effect, then I

    will seek another term to describe it. Kind sir the ball is in your

    court!

    Gary S. Dykes
     
  7. GSDykes

    GSDykes Well-Known Member

    Below is an image captured from www.error-ref.com.
    It is instructive to note that the reised "dots" follow the lines of stress. Whereas the CZ coins always show random raised bubbles or dots. In fact many of the wear lines
    are die wear, true, but they form a distinct pattern, not like the plating problems on certain Lincoln cents. Ask Mr. Diamond for his opinion of this post (I have no idea if he is still alive).


    [​IMG] stress_rays.jpg
    Can you see the ray pattern of the wear textures?? This type of die wear is especially noted on the harder metals like nickel. Few copper cents show such die wear. Usually the mint removes them before they get to this point. Worn dies for Lincoln cents will show flow lines, but few with raised dots along the flow lines.
    Gary in Washington
     
  8. GSDykes

    GSDykes Well-Known Member

    This dime is even clearer, also from error-ref.com. Note that they do not display a cent with their "orange peel" definition. The raised portions follow the radiating flow lines. See the pattern? You will NEVER see an orange with this pattern!

    [​IMG]
    Gary In Washington
     
  9. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    So it sounds like your saying that error-ref.com is using the term orange peel incorrectly because you feel it should be used to describe plating issues instead??

    BTW: I don't think anyone has disagreed that the original worn die orange peel and the new and improved plating orange peel are completely different minting defects
     
  10. GSDykes

    GSDykes Well-Known Member

    Well I think they are very different processes. I agree with you totally. And yes it should be used to describe the orange peel texture, that which is seen in the copper over zinc is clearly the most visible example. At any rate I will try to distinguish as per your recommendation.
    Gary in Washington
     
  11. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    I think that's what oldhoop was saying... plating issue.
     
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