The first issue of Septimius Severus?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Finn235, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Recent win from Savoca London; not in hand yet but had to share!

    20200116_112816.jpg

    Septimius Severus
    AR Denarius
    IMP C AEL SEP SEV PERT AVG, Laureate head right
    VIRT AVG TR P COS, Virtus standing left, holding victory and spear
    RIC 24
    Struck 193

    Although this type is not particularly rare, it stood out immediately to me for having a very special bust that looks like a certain other emperor who shared the year 193 AD with a few other emperors...

    Didius julianus denarius concord militvm.jpg

    Compare against the same type with a more "standard" severus bust...
    (Not mine)
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2008615
    [​IMG]

    Given how quickly the mint was able to switch to the "right" Severus portrait, I think it is probably safe to say that:
    1) Severus, being a wealthy general in early 193, probably already had several busts at his estate in Rome, which were given to the mint to make dies from
    2) This coin very probably was made in June, July, or August 193 using a Didius Julianus portrait that was modified to remove the point from his beard and reduce the size of his nose somewhat.

    Either way, it will be nice to have more than two emperors for my page for "The Year of Five Emperors"

    Post thoughts, insights, or anything related!
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  3. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    An attractive coin, with full flan, legends virtually 100% complete, and almost no circulation wear, though there is mild die wear on the obv. die!

    I am skeptical of your suggestion that the portrait has been re-engraved from Didius Julianus, however. I see no clear suggestions of that emperor's features, and if such were present, then maybe just because the engraver was used to producing portraits of Didius. Since the Virtus rev. type was carried on by Septimius in 194, presumably it lasted until the end of 193, but we can't be sure it goes back to the very first days of his reign. The obv. legend clearly hasn't been re-engraved from that of Didius, so I prefer to believe that the same applies to the portrait, unless a denarius of Didius showing the same obv. die but before modification can be discovered!
     
  4. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Cool first-year coin. To me, it looks a bit more like Pertinax - the reputedly "legitimate" ruler before Didius.
     
    ominus1 and Ryro like this.
  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I suspect we all see what we want to see. This is my coin in which I like to see Didius. I don't believe Didius was around long enough to have his face become habitual for the cutters. On what do we base the relative order of the first legend issues?
    ri3810bb0280.jpg

    I'm not sure how to define the "right" Severus portrait. The 193 only Rome mint portraits have quite a variety. "Right?"

    Straight hair?
    ri4050b01076lg.JPG

    My favorite from an 'art' sense but probably not very accurate:
    ri3720bb1347.jpg

    Is there an estimate of the number of first legend obverse dies?
     
  6. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Doug,

    Three months will have meant dozens, even hundreds of obv. dies for some engravers, surely enough to develop a habitual depiction? Not that I have seen any early Severan portraits that I think undoubtedly reflect Didius' features.

    Yes, the straight hairs in some portraits of 193 seem very likely to indicate an early date.

    As far as I know no one has yet attempted to count or estimate the number of denarius obv. dies used for Septimius in 193 or any later year.

    The order of the rev. types of Septimius, Domna, and Albinus in 193 is not obvious. For Septimius LIBERAL AVG COS and SAEC FRVGIF COS might be regarded as early since they omit TR P on aurei and denarii, but (a) on the bronze coins the same types add TR P and (b) the same two types and VICT AVG TR P COS also occur on rare denari with Septimius' IMP II obv. legend, a sure sign that these three types were still in use at the very end of 193.
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Where did the Legionaries fall? I assume the coins for LEG XIIII were made over a much longer period since they are nearly as common as the rest combined. ri3580bb0899.jpg
     
  8. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I don't know about that. If you worked at engraving the portrait of Didius Julianus all day every day for the better part of two months and 5 days (the length of his reign), I think you could get so it was almost automatic.
     
  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I agree the OP portrait is suggestive of Didius Julianus, and I think Finn's bet that this is an early issue is a reasonable one. Great coin in any case!

    I don't have much of relevance to post. Here's a year 2 (194) drachm of Cappadocia:

    Screen Shot 2020-01-16 at 10.27.10 PM.jpg
     
  10. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    In case it's helpful to the discussion, I think that this coin, too, is a first-year issue, based on Curtis's comment about the straight hair:
    SeptimiusSeverus0778.jpg
    Rome Mint, A.D. 193-194
    Obverse: IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG.
    Reverse: VICT AVG TR P COS - Victory, advancing left, holding wreath in right hand and palm branch in left.
    RIC 22.
    18 mm, 2.8 g.
     
  11. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Just for reference. Here are the examples that I obtained for the two types (LIBERAL AVG COS and SAEC FRVGIF COS) cited by Curtis above:-

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I have only owned two straight hair examples:-
    [​IMG]
    One of which was a legionary type
    [​IMG]
    Doug provided an artistically pleasing example, here is my least artistically pleasing one
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    With his curly hair and frizzy beard Septimius Severus is usually one of the most recognizable emperor.

    However, I really like those early portraits of 193/194 when he looked like one of the other emperors of that time. Here is a recent purchase of mine. Note his straight hair and the more "civilised" beard. I think he looks at bit like Antoninus Pius. The engravers clearly had no portrait to work from when they produced the dies for the first emissions:

    IMP CAE L SEPT SEV PERT AVG // VICT AVG TR P COS
    3.37 gr.
    NGC grade ch XF
    Date: 193/194

    Screenshot 2021-02-07 at 15.03.49.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
    Finn235, Johndakerftw, Bing and 5 others like this.
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