“Dark Side” TPG Grade and Authentication Challenge #6- 1854 Huge O Quarter

One of the most misattributed varieties in my opinion is the 1854 huge O quarter; we have several reported on internet selling venues each year- the attribution points are really pretty easy though!

This latest installment of TPG grade and authenticity challenge is about my example, imaged as follows:





The 2nd image is from PCGS CoinFacts (courtesy PCGS) and is a comparable one to my subject example:


As in the previous polls I am looking for the TPG grade (coin is certified by a top TPG) and whether you think it is authentic or not if you so chose, but I must admit there is a twist to this one...

And as previous posts I will try and answer questions as this post runs without giving away the final "answers"!

 

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I would say old cleaning and scratched, but the only other thing that jumps out at me is that the O in DOL looks weird in both coins. Other examples I found online don't look tilted like that. I like the seated series, but am no kind of expert.

 

Just to add fodder to this post, here's my coin.
It's in a PCGS VF-35 slab.
The image is large to (maybe) help with seeing its features.

 

Ok op coin is counterfeit. The weakly defined shield with lack of details the blurry outline to the eagles wings and the porosity by the arrow tips are all tells. I think the host coin had the x shaped scratches which they didn’t eliminate the pit by the second star may also be a tell for more examples

 

@Insider

 

I am with @Mainebill on this one. While I am not a trained counterfeit detector, there are enough red flags that give me pause on this one. I too believe this is a counterfeit piece.

 

Im gonna go out on a limb and say both, the host coin and the coin pictured from Coin Facts are fake. They both show the same indentation above Liberty's head, the same weak spot on the denticles above the liberty cap, looks like the same gash on the denticles above the T in UNITED, and both appear to have the same indentation to the right of the mintmark below the eagle's claw.

The host coin graded VF details cleaned.

 

While researching this one we came across the following example in a TPG holder sold in a 2014 auction:

 

This one has the same scratched obverse too.

 

Counterfeit at a guess. Pitted surface and possibly cast.

 

Heavy tooling. Definitely fake.

 

Definitely heavy tooling!

Major differences between mine and an unmolested genuine example (mine on the left of both images):

 

I guess a twist would be that it's in a counterfeit slab, and an untrained eye would make the purchase.

 

It is a genuine slab Chuck_A!

 

Yeah. The claws are definitely different where they rolled them from the damaged original that whole area looked funky to me. I know why now

 

Huh, that's fascinating.

I didn't know this before, but after the fantastic lecture that @TypeCoin971793 gave at FUN, I now know that there's been a pattern of people buying genuine damaged coins, shipping them to China where the damage was repaired and impact dies were made from the genuine repaired details coin. They use details coins because the process of making an impact die generally ruins the host coin. Given your post of the host coin, I'm almost certain that's what we're looking at.

My first impression on seeing the coin in the OP was that it was tooled/repaired/altered. I didn't really think it was a counterfeit until I looked a second time. Then I realized it might be a counterfeit - the level of perceived wear on the coin didn't match the level of luster on the coin - it didn't look worn enough for how worn it was supposed to look. If that makes any sense.

This is absolutely fascinating, cutting edge work you are doing. I appreciate you sharing it with us!

 

I remember the OP coin from an older thread. It’s a scary one!

 

You're impressive, fine sir.

 

Just a quick comparison of the holed "probable source coin" and my example, looking for matching marks and level of detail:

 

Oh yeah, absolutely no doubt in my mind that the 2 are related.

My biggest question when you posted the holed coin - is the OP the same coin repaired with the hole filled and tooled to reduce the damage, or is it a counterfeit made from a repaired die based on the original.

I think I've seen enough to say that its a counterfeit with repaired and enhanced dies. I'm very curious to see what PCGS called it, but I'll be honest, it is a very good fake.