YOU are Invited: The First Official CoinTalk Meet and Greet at FUN 2020

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by physics-fan3.14, Dec 9, 2019.

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Will you be there?

  1. Absolutely!

    5 vote(s)
    7.9%
  2. I'm not sure about that physics-fan guy, but I'd like to meet the rest of you

    4 vote(s)
    6.3%
  3. Let me think about it. Maybe?

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  4. Unfortunately, I can't make it. Maybe next year!

    38 vote(s)
    60.3%
  5. Will there be bacon?

    14 vote(s)
    22.2%
  1. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Indeed, I tied for first with Ron Guth out of 103 participants. The scoring was such that you got 5 points for a correct answer, and 1 to 3 if you were close. Ron got 2 more correct than I did (he got 7, I got 5), but he also totally missed 2 more (he missed 3, I missed 1). So I guess I had a tighter grouping?

    As Jason said, it was a tough box to grade with a rather diverse assortment of coins. A few of us discussed the coins with the Paul (person doing the contest) from NGC, so I have a little insight as to what was there. Going from memory and Jason's cues, there were three Morgan dollars. One was an 80-S in 68 (I may have said 67) and one was an 85-CC in 61 (I think I said 62). Another was an 89-P with an added CC, which jumped out at me due to the strike not looking at all like a genuine 89-CC, which are disproportionately PL, by the way. The only gold was a proof 68 or 69 Iranian bullion coin. There was a really neat bronze medal with high relief that graded 66BN. I think I got this one right. The killer coin of the bunch was a 1788 Massachusetts cent. I wanted to grade it 66, but couldn't bring myself to do it so I said 65. It was a 66. Drop-dead gorgeous piece that is a $50,000 coin. Paul said many thought it was too good to be true and called it AU58 or fake. The seated coins were an XF40 half dime and a VF25 quarter. I think I got them both right. A 1798 cent graded VG8 that I graded 10, but was close to calling details for porosity and borderline damage. A toned Barber dime graded 62, which was hard to grade because of the toning, but careful inspection revealed both the hairlines and the fact that the luster wasn't broken. A double-struck 2 Anna with 2nd strike off center was pretty cool. I think it graded 65 and I called it 64. The California commemorative was counterfeit. The proof South African coin was PR68. I called it 67. They wouldn't put an attractive AT coin in there, probably because it's too controversial of a statement. The one I had the biggest disagreement with, as did others in the discussion, was an Isabella quarter, which they graded 67. It was very attractive, but not a 67 by a long shot. I called it 65, as did another contestant. There was also a shattered die Civil War token that graded 58. The rub on the coin was only visible on the die breaks.

    That's 15. NGC will be putting up an article with pictures of the coins and their comments.

    One comment I had was that there were no US moderns, and none of the notoriously tough US coins like 3c silver, buffalo nickels and $2.50 or $5 Indians. I also said they should put a hammered coin, like a Henry VIII groat or half-groat, if they want to mess with people, but there's only so much you can cover with 15 coins.

    gradingcontest.jpg
     
    CircCam, jwitten, ldhair and 13 others like this.
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  3. kSigSteve

    kSigSteve Active Member

    Congrats! Great summary and comments. Looking forward to seeing the article.
     
    GoldFinger1969 and messydesk like this.
  4. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Congratulations MD. That's quite diverse selection of coins for such a contest, and testament to your well-rounded skills.
     
    GoldFinger1969 and messydesk like this.
  5. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I'm still at FUN today until 3pm...if any CTers are still here and want to meet up for a few minutes, PM me.
     
  6. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I'm still at FUN today until 3pm...if any CTers are still here and want to meet up for a few minutes, PM me.
     
  7. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Wow, I was *WAY* off on many of those. I completely missed the added CC. I called the Mass cent AU-58. Paul sent out the results today, and I think I placed 44th..... :(

    Thanks for the summary, and congrats on the win!
     
    GoldFinger1969 and messydesk like this.
  8. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Wow !! Last 4 days have been a blast...as some of you might have surmised, after a rocky 1st day things got alot better for me at FUN (but not so much for my wallet:D ). Hence no updates last 3 days....been busy and getting back 11ish and to bed 130 am or so each day.

    I'll have a detailed summary early next week when I get back to New York....still at OCCC waiting to head to airport. Got a bite to eat surrounded by lovely Mary Kay gals.:D

    Great meeting most of the CTers at FUN, I missed a few of you but hopefully I'll see you at other shows...worst case, next year.

    Show is moving to North OCCC next year so let's all coordinate hotel arrangements. I know I want to hang out more off-show with fellow CTers so will stay where most of you all do to make it easier.
     
    green18 likes this.
  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Congrats MesseyDesk...sorry I missed you at the booth.:mad:
     
    messydesk likes this.
  10. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Congratulations, John!

    ~ Chris
     
    messydesk likes this.
  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I missed this until I read your post again. It was? Wow. I originally called it 62, but then on a second glance called it cleaned. That was a damn good counterfeit!
     
  12. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    My initial thought was that it looked weird. The surface texture was not correct for a California. It was almost prooflike. Taking a loupe to the tiny details (date and mint mark) confirmed it for me, as they were rather blurry. If you don't know what a real one is supposed to look like, this was a pretty deceptive counterfeit.
     
  13. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Anyone going to Atlanta in late February?
     
  14. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I was considering it, but I don't think my monetary reserves will have sufficiently recovered by then. I don't usually go, but I was considering the Summer FUN in July.
     
    GoldFinger1969 and green18 like this.
  15. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Congratulations! We have a star among us.
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  16. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Bloody 'Murder's Row'.....would have loved to have met you all. Larry I know (and he looks like he's getting younger), but the rest of you rogues? Another time, and another place.

    And Jason? Ever hear of a tripod and a timer? devil.gif
     
    ldhair and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I hope someone posts the links to the PICTURES ONLY....I'd like to give it a shot just to see how bad/mediocre I am compared to the veteran guys. If there's a way to just see the pics (obv & rev), please post it. I don't recall which coins graded what and will stay away from comments so I go in blind.

    If it's possible for us at home to do the test, let us know how long we get. I think I read 8 or 10 or 12 minutes.

    If it were possible to be in a room at OCCC and see the pics on a big TV screen, I would have loved to have tested my own grading skills. I know they are at beginner level, but it would be good to see how I do (though the variety of stuff the experts graded was very diverse compared to what most of us concentrate on).
     
  18. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    If I recall, when NGC posted the pictures last year, they did it in a format such that you could do this. We had 10 minutes to do 15 coins.
    There was stuff I had never seen before. You basically have to grade these using a generalization of how you grade everything else. How much wear is there? How are the surfaces? How is the luster? How does is look?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  19. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    FUN Thoughts: Well, it IS appropriately named, because I had LOTS of FUN. :D

    After a rocky 1st day (see above), I really had a great time on Friday and Saturday, seeing lots of good stuff, and also opening my wallet. Then I just did some clean-up buying and scouring on Sunday. Finally left the bourse at about 1 PM Sunday and just hung out and read before heading to the airport.

    I'll give my thoughts as a 1st-timer especially geared to those of you who are on the bubble about coming to FUN for your first time ever (do it, you won't regret it !).

    On a personal level, I found and purchased my 1923-D Saint-Gaudens (PhysicsFan and JohnMilton both liked it and I sure as hell value their expertiese on grading and Saints). Thanks also to PF for alerting me to Saint dealers on Day 2 after I struck out on Day 1.:D

    Elsewhere, I purchased everything from Disney stuff to overpriced silver in slabs to Russian gold to bullion. I'll post pics and stuff in all the relevent threads in coming days.

    My review of FUN in general:

    The Good:
    • Plenty of stuff to peruse once I learned my way about the bourse. :D
    • Took detailed notes on what the best dealers for the stuff I am interested in have. Will definitely help me next year.
    • Enjoyed having the auctions on-site. Was great being in the audience for the 1927-D Saint. Good thing I didn't lift my recording smartphone any higher...the auctioneer may have thought I was bidding at $1.9 million or so !! :D
    • No need for a car unless you want to visit people or places on your own schedule more than a few miles from the hotel. The shuttles and cabs are omnipresent and very reasonably priced.
    • Diverse group of speakers. Especially liked Randy Campells's talk on the best Silver Dollars to invest in. Would love to see an annual wrap up in the middle of the day (when things slow down) that covers Saints, Morgans, Barbers, SLQ's, etc. for the year ahead. Either individually or all in one talk.
    • Fantastic meeting all the CoinTalk people and hanging out with ldhair Saturday night.
    • Saw something for everyone at FUN. Unless you have been going for years and/or need a very very specific niche, there's going to be stuff there that interests you. Maybe not for 4 days like me, but certainly 1 or 2 days.
    • Much more ancients and foreign than I thought -- even had a dedicated section for them. Lots of other dealers also had Ancients or Foreign coins (esp. gold ones). I'd say about 20-25 Ancient dealers in the dedicated section, and a few dozen others had some kind of foreign/ancient stuff.
    • Finally, impressed that the FUN people (mostly or all volunteers, I believe) can put this huge event gogether. As a member of a club that does something similar, I know the work that goes into such an event. Can't believe they do it all again (a bit smaller) in 5 months -- we have a year off in my club ! :D
    • Plenty of stuff to peruse once you know where to look.
    • Great exhibition layout. Congrats to JohnMilton of CT for his excellent display !
    • Congrats to MessyDesk and PhysicsFan on their performance in the grading contest !
    The Needs Improvement Section:
    • KNOW THE LAYOUT: I wasted lots of time forgetting where dealers where. Learn how to use your smartphone to take pics and/or notes (or both) rather than taking out a notepad and pen every few stations like I did.
    • If you book early, you can get those $200/night hotel rooms for half price, so do it.:p
    • A dealer had a 2009 UHR MS70 at $3,400. An MS69 at $2,750. Those figures are 60% and 50% over recent sales and Ebay for this widely-available coin. Why have something so grossly over market ? But for the most part, I thought prices for the stuff I know was fairly priced.
    • Can't have 8 AM talks. :mad: People stay out at night, especially Opening Thursday which is a travel day for most and you need Thurs/Friday to recuperate. The Paper Money talk was at 8 AM Friday and attended by only 6 or 7 people. I'm sure they would have had more if it were scheduled later in the day.
    • Wouldn't mind a night-time ANA educational event.
    • There was a difference in attendance on Saturday when the working public could attend. But I think there could be even MORE non-coin collectors who would come, get interested in the hobby, and most importantly spend $$$ and increase the dealers profits. We have the same problem in my club that hosts a big annual convention. I think the solution for both of us is dedicated, persistent, social media presence and advertising. That's how all the folks under 50 years of age learn about things nowadays -- and they have the $$$ to spend.
    • Would love to be able to do the grading contest alongside the pros. Better yet, maybe a short 30-minute separate contest with mostly U.S. coins (since that's what most of those at FUN collect) in a room and then have someone rate the graders. Create a grading scale and then let us know how we did.
    All-in-all, I give FUN a solid "A" for Absolutely Astounding FUN. Definitely going back next year and will look forward to seeing more of you on the bourse and also in the after-hours hotel hangouts and dinners that I may have missed this year.

    Given my off-again, on-again interest in this hobby over the years, I doubt I would have ever gone (or learned about it) without CoinTalk and all of you who gave valuable insight over the last year or so -- THANKS !:cigar:

    If anybody considers going in the future and needs any specific answers and I can help out, just PM me. If I can't help you, I'll let you know someone who can.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  20. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Great that you have a good time there. I'll make a few comments that might enhance your next visit further.



    Always good to get info from someone on who has what. If a dealer doesn't have something, ask who might and you'll eventually get to the right place. On coins where there are many available, like 23-D Saints, it is important to cherrypick the grade. The low-end ones will end up being sold sight unseen online, so don't pick one of those.


    There's a printable bourse map and dealer guide avaialble before the show. Print this out and mark it up during the show with the good dealers. They tend to get the same tables each year, so it'll be easy to find them next time. Normal printer paper is easier to mark up and fold into your pocket than the glossy show guide.


    Not sure if you are aware, but anyone can go register for lot viewing and look at stuff like this in hand before the auction. You'll have to go behind the velvet rope for the "platinum night" stuff, and the highest value coins are in their own box that comes with a couple body guards, but you can handle the coins just the same as anyone else.

    Always ask permission before taking a picture of a dealer's booth or display case.
    The contest was open to anyone. They wanted you to register for a time slot, but they accommodated walk-ups as they could. There were about 10 YNs that participated, if I recall. Like Jason's grading experiment, the more you do, the better you get.
     
  21. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Gotcha, thanks !

    Bullseye....a big mistake on my part that could have made Day 1 a ton easier. I thought I did print out the layout but lost it. I found it when departing at the airport !! :D

    Same thing with the Security Room....I only used it on Sunday to leave my baggage. I should have used it earlier in the week to leave all the heavy stuff I bought and/or the paper and brochures I had stuffed into my bag (it was KILLING me on Thursday and Friday :D!).

    And yup...I lost my tickets to the baggage in Security and had to provide alternate ID proof....and of course, once I was all done with that, I found the 2 tickets sticking to a business card in my wallet. We all laughed.:D

    Yup....only fly in the ointment is next year FUN January is at the North Convention complex, not West.:mad:

    I think I did that...they gave me a white and red bidding card...but then I got confused about where to go, and was so far behind in finding quality Saint and Proof dealers, I went back in to the bourse. I saw the 1927-D auction which was great, but yeah, I would have liked to have seen the coin up-close.:oops:

    Gotcha....I did ask, in fact they suggested it when they did NOT have business cards, which believe it or not many dealers did not have.

    Gotcha, thanks !
     
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