'Our Lord and God's' Victory

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I purchased this eagerly anticipated coin earlier in December, but it was held up for quite sometime in overseas postal purgatory. It only arrived earlier today!



    D703a.jpg
    Domitian
    Æ Sestertius, 25.05g
    Rome mint, 90-91 AD
    Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM COS XV CENS PER P P; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: S C in exergue; Domitian stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear, crowned by Victory, stg. l.
    RIC 703 (C). BMC 443. BNC 477.
    Acquired from iNumis, December 2019.

    In 85 AD Domitian rolled out a new set of reverse designs for the bronze coinage, most of which would be repeatedly struck over the next decade. The Victory crowning Domitian was a particular favourite for the sestertius. It copies a similar type struck for Vespasian's aurei with one key difference - throwing modesty aside, Domitian is holding Jupiter's thunderbolt, an unprecedented divine attribute for a living emperor 'which has no doubt been given to him by his patroness Minerva' (BMCRE p. xciv). It brings to mind Suetonius' anecdotes concerning Domitian's megalomania of wishing to be addressed as 'Lord and God' and having statues of himself erected only in gold or silver, itself a divine attribute (Dom. 13.2). The Flavian historian Brian Jones speculated 'Domitian was both intelligent and committed to the traditional religion. He obviously knew that he was not a God, and, whilst he did not ask or demand to be addressed as one, he did not actively discourage the few flatterers who did' (Jones 1992). This coin's reverse seems to contradict Jones' generous explanation. It shows a concious decision to depict the emperor in a divine light. It's a decision that could only have come from the top. Perhaps Jones is correct and Domitian did not directly order people to address him as 'Lord and god', however, the numismatic evidence at the very least shows that he was very open to it.

    This example from 90-91 is likely a generic Victory type perhaps celebrating the recent double triumph over the Chatti and the Dacians in late 89. A fairly large number of the type were struck for the COS XV issue. Because Domitian did not renew the consulship in 91, these COS XV sestertii cannot be precisely dated and were likely struck for an extended period of time.

    I was waiting on this gorgeous coin to show up in time for my 2019 year end Top Ten list, alas, it did not make it time. Perhaps it will be a contender for 2020.

    Feel free to show your coins that have a generous dose of megalomania.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  3. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Great addition, I like yellow/Orichalum Sestertii :)
    also an interesting write up.

    I recently read a few things about Domitian including Jones book. The interesting thing about Domitian is that his narcissism (if he had that) is not accompanied by uncontrolled policy. For an emperor such as Commodus this plays a much more important role, think of the chaos that prevails when Commodus resides outside of Rome in Lanuvium, and is not concerned about the situation in the city. Domitian is therefore other, I think, his policy was focused on control, order and stability. Furthermore, a number of things stand out. In the first place, Domitian is focused on economic prosperity, such as his currency reforms. His border defense tactics also seem pretty clear. Do not expand the empire any further, but stabilize the borders. And defeat enemies where necessary, but where peace agreements can also be made, do that.

    I think his political strategy was one of the reasons why his campaign against the Germans was not taken seriously, as he had not expanded the empire any further. The senators who provide us the only information about Domitian often have the impression that Rome must continue its expansion. You also see the same phenomenon with Tiberius because he recalls Germanicus from his campaigns in northern Germany. The senators in the first century did not fully understand that there was a limit to Rome's expansion drift.

    However, this is certainly not the whole story. Domitian was cruel in the first place. He was also rather focused on himself. I therefore certainly do not think that he was a sweet man who has been denounced by the sources. However, you can also wonder why Domitian was so cruel. As Jones has shown, there has been no such thing as a tyrannical period, executions of senators took place during most of his reign, and moreover Domitian executed fewer senators than Emperor Claudius.

    I think Domitian might have had less power in hands than we think. He was the first long-ruling emperor who did not come from the Julio-Claudian dynasty and could not base his power on military achievements. He had to be authoritarian, but perhaps went too far. I personally think that Domitian, because of his relatively unstable position of power, did not mind being called god. That Domitian might not have the tact to deal with the senate, and also was a traditionalist. Did not means that he was mentally disturbed or narcissistic, he was more selfish than other emperors I think.

    Sorry for my long story. I hope it doesn't annoy you. I like to give my vision. And certainly will not claim that it is "the" truth. Domitian is an emperor I have read a lot about and it is precisely figures like him and Hadrian that interest me because they had special and controversial characters.

    My two Domitians come from his period as Caesar.

    [​IMG]

    Domitian Caesar 69-81
    AR Denarius
    Struck 79
    3,13g/ 18mm
    CAESAR AVG F DOMITIANVS COS VI
    Laureate head right
    PRINCEPS IVVENTVTIS
    Clasped hands before legionary eagle
    Ric 1081 (Vespasian)

    [​IMG]
    Domitian Caesar 69-81
    AR Denarius
    Struck 80-81
    3,08g/19mm
    CAESAR DIVI F DOMITIANVS COS VII
    laureate head right.
    PRINCEPS IVVENTVTIS
    lighted & garlanded altar.
    Ric 266 (Titus)
     
  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I would think so! The coin is tremendously appealing-- one of my favorites of your entire collection.
     
  5. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I’m with TIF in really liking this coin, David. Wonderful addition to the collection!

    My favorite example of megalomania on a coin is of course Commodus playing at being Hercules.

    [​IMG]COMMODUS
    AE As. 10.7g, 24.5mm. Rome mint, AD 192. RIC 644; Cohen 193. O: L AEL AVREL COMM AVG P FEL, head of Commodus as Hercules right, wearing lion skin. R: HER-CVL/RO-MAN/AV-GV/S-C in four lines flanking club; all within laurel wreath.
    Ex Dr. Walter Neussel Collection (acquired from Dr. Busso Peus, 1958)
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Excellent coin! Have you noticed that the major megalomanics in Roman history tend to have gained their position not from who they were but from who their parents were? Beyond that, the younger the person was when the family came to power, the worse the likelihood of megalomania. Of the top level (Caligula, Nero, Domitian, Commodus and Elagabalus) two were elevated by a worthy father and three more by grandmothers. Note how rare it was for a Roman dynasty to last beyond two generations. Notice how megalomaniacs did not tend to die in bed. Someone will point out the exceptions to these rules but it would seem that had the Roman Empire followed a rule excluding men with children from power, we might all be speaking Latin still.
     
  7. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this generous discussion of the "Dominus et deus" issue. It sheds a lot of light on what can and cannot be said about it, as well as how numismatics matter.
     
  8. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    What a great coin !
    Excellent story as well

    Q
     
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  9. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

  10. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Excellent coin!
     
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  11. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    That is a truly beautiful coin. Congrats.
     
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    NAILED it!
     
  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Gorgeous Sestertius, @David Atherton ... super snare to your collection. Amazing how easily you can tell who he is by the distinctive obverse. Nice, even though he was such a twerp. :D
     
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  14. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    No apology is needed, I quite enjoyed it and found little to disagree over.

    Of interest, H. Mattingly in BMCRE sums up Domitian's coinage thus - 'The one ugly feature is the vanity that leads Domitian to take over for himself a divine attribute - the thunderbolt' (p. xcv).
     
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  15. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    As I was doing the write-up for my coin Commodus came to mind quite frequently. I was hoping someone would post one of his Hercules coins!
     
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  16. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    'Wine, sex and baths ruin our bodies, but they are the stuff of life.' -1st century epitaph

    21st century epitaph........but I just don't get it. How?

    Me thinks the ancients were hung up with ardor and unable to come to terms with it......much like today. I just have another Scotch.....keeps me out of trouble. :)
     
  17. Marsman

    Marsman Well-Known Member

    I almost bought this one. Now that I see the coin again I regret I didn’t :(
    But it is in good hands now :) Congrats!
     
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  18. Limes

    Limes Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the story @David Atherton. And a lovely coin indeed.

    When it comes to a coin depicting the megalomanic (or insane) character of an emperor, the one below of course immediately comes to mind. Nevertheless, I do think being a megalomanic person (or narcist, or perhaps 'full of yourself') was a necessary characteristic of every Roman...

    35.2.png
     
  19. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I really like your OP coin, David! So much so that when I saw this one, I had to have it! It also marks my first sestertius of Domitian and if the Flavians... Though I did just order one of his father yesterday. :jawdrop::D

    Here is my new one like yours (yours is much nicer)... Mine COS XVI vs your COS XV type:

    8F3A8C68-97FA-4D65-AD34-FB46889471DE.jpeg
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2020
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  20. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    That’s a great coin, David. Congratulations! Did you get any explanation why it took so long, and were you ever furious while waiting?

    I saw and photographed this sculpture in Rome in 2008, and decided I had to have a nice Commodus as Hercules:

    9B257989-81B2-4AA9-A356-AE3D97814846.jpeg
     
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