Saint Helena and Saint Constantine.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by BenSi, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    Latin 1/2 Tetarteron Around 1220AD SBCV-2059

    OBV St Helena
    REV St Constantine

    20mm 2.8gm

    Nice coin to start for 2020, came by fedex today. Almost as stuck.

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  3. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Very nice.... I love the chocolate patina, clear legends and excellent detail.
    Great way to start the year!

    I have nothing like it to share.. other than coins struck well before sainthood...

    upload_2020-1-8_7-24-8.png
    Helena.
    16 mm.
    FL IVL HELENAE AVG
    PAX PVBLICA
    CONSE
    Mint of Constantinople


    upload_2020-1-8_7-27-3.png
    Constantine, 307-337
    Struck 319
    Bust left, helmeted, spear over far shoulder, shield on left shoulder.
    VICT LAETAE PRINC PERP
    Two victories inscribing shield "VOT/PR"
    ASIS, 19 mm
     
  4. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    Both beautiful examples. Helena was canonized in 1164, Constantine I cant find the date, he might not have been canonized.

    If you have Helena and Constantine coins, post them. They both had some great coinage.
     
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  5. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    It seemed odd to me to see the Emperor Constantine labelled as a "saint". I assume the Constantine on the coin is Constantine the Great, 4th Century AD, and his mother, Helena. Considering his private life, much of which spilled over into public life, it is not the kind of behavior we are likely to associate with sanctity. Perhaps the Latins' understanding of his life circa a thousand years after was not well informed.
     
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  6. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    Yes Same people, supposedly he did not become Christian till his deathbed.
     
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  7. lrbguy

    lrbguy Well-Known Member

    Constantine was Christian by affirmation long before his death. It was his baptism which was delayed, but that should not be equated with his faith conviction. The usual understanding about his delay in baptism was that it was advised to maximize the impact of sin forgiveness and minimize the amount of sin needing additional atonement after baptism. It appears to have been a calculated decision based on his understanding of the dynamics of atonement and the benefits of baptism. That it is predicated upon the assumption of eternal life should be presupposed without question, I think.
     
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  8. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    I believe Constantine I was canonized by the Eastern Orthodox Church - but not by what we know now as the Roman Catholic Church.
     
  9. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    That makes this coin a little more interesting, it was issued in Constantinople under Latin rule. However he does not have a halo ( Nimbate.), maybe he was not a saint in this coin.

    The only other coin I knew that had him as a saint was under Alexius III trachy. The last independent ruler before Latin rule in 1203AD. Note Halo.
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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  10. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    From the Interwebs:

    Constantine was the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. Although he lived much of his life as a pagan, and later as a catechumen, he joined the Christian faith on his deathbed, being baptised by Eusebius of Nicomedia. He played an influential role in the proclamation of the Edict of Milan in 313, which declared religious tolerance for Christianity in the Roman empire.

    He called the First Council of Nicaea in 325, which produced the statement of Christian belief known as the Nicene Creed. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built on his orders at the purported site of Jesus' tomb in Jerusalem and became the holiest place in Christendom. The Papal claim to temporal power in the High Middle Ages was based on the forged Donation of Constantine. He has historically been referred to as the "First Christian Emperor", and he did heavily promote the Christian Church. Some modern scholars, however, debate his beliefs and even his comprehension of the Christian faith itself.

    Addendum by me:

    Helena also founded the monastery of St. Catherine at the foot of Mt. Sinai in Egypt. Although in Egypt, the facility remained Eastern Orthodox rather than Coptic Christian throughout Late Antiquity. 3,500 steps (which I climbed a few years back) take the visitor to the top of Mt. Sinai and a Byzantine Chapel at the summit, termed the Steps of Repentance. Amongst the interesting documents at the Museum in the monastery are a 4th century koine Greek bible on papyrus and an original letter from Muhammad giving the facility religious freedom and even protection by the Muslims.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    upload_2020-1-8_13-24-11.png
    RI Helena mother Constantine AE Follis Securitas Nicomedia mint 325-326 CE 19mm 3.3g RIC-95 Sear 16619


    upload_2020-1-8_13-25-15.png
    RI Constantine I CE 306-337 Æ Follis 19mm 3.2g Siscia CE 326-7 AVG Laureate R - PROVIDENTIAE AVGG Camp gate 2 turrets no door star RIC 200
     
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  12. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    I forgot to ask, under what Latin king was the OP coin struck.
     
  13. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    It is uncertain, the Latins ruled Constantinople from 1203 ( 1204) to 1261. After Alexius III escaped the city he took all the money he could , he basically sacked the treasury. The crusaders sold the throne to Isaac II ( He was blinded at the end of his last reign) and Alexius IV but they could not pay the agreed amount and were both killed in a rebellion. Alexius V takes over but the crusaders quickly again attacked the city ( 1204) and then divided the area between the Venetians and the Frankish crusaders.

    I do not know of the specific Emperors for the 50+ year rule.

    The coin was called imitation because it was recreating a Byzantine denomination, however the imagery was original.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  14. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    In regards to which ruler issued which coins during the Latin occupation, its not possible to identify the ruler. They were all issued nameless and thus we don't know which ruler issued which coin. There have been some theories, but nothing concrete. As such, the general rule is that they were minted anonymously. BTW, that is an outstanding coin that I had my eye on. Glad you grabbed it Simon!
     
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  15. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    The inscription seems to be in Greek (HAGIA). Why would the Latin (Frankish) rulers choose Greek instead of Latin which was the language most commonly used in Western Christendom at the time? For local acceptance by the Byzantines (Romaioi) under their rule?
     
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  16. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    The same reason they imitated the currency of the east, it was familiar to the population. The eastern roman empire had made Greek the official language 500+ years earlier.
     
  17. Shea19

    Shea19 Well-Known Member

    Interesting coin, I like it. Here is my only Helena.

    93B05DDB-0178-46FD-825C-1EDB398C2C38.jpeg
    Helena, Treveri circa 326, AE Follis (19mm, 2.25g), Diademed and draped bust of Helena right/ Rev. Securitas standing facing, head l., holding branch, RIC 481
    From the Cardinal Meisner (1933-2017) Collection.
     
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