SGS/ABONCOM Certificate of Authenticity Bait and Switch on Coins

Has anyone noticed about 3 to 4 months ago ABONCOM's auctions on e-Bay made a change in the way they listed and pictured their coins and COA's?

I noticed this starting right after their first auction of the silver strike Circus Circus that they had listed as being a Chipco.

Here's a picture of the items as shown in that auction.

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After seeing this auction several silver strike and chip collectors wrote to ABONCOM to inform them about their token and that it wasn't a Chipco.

Here's a picture of the items resulting in the new auction.

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Note now that the serial number on the slab has changed and the COA is now changed to a blank pro-forma.

Now take a look at this current ABONCOM auction coin.

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Notice that the area where SGS places the serial numbers is now digitally greyed out. Also the supplied COA is a blank pro-forma.

I've noticed that all of the recent casino tokens offered had the serial numbers listed on the slabs in the auctions and were not greyed out. However the COA's were all blank pro-formas. This leads me to believe that SGS/ABONCOM only had ONE of these items to sell and had no additional duplicates. I also noted that most of the grades on the tokens were NOT of the very top grades. Still they used a Chip Grading scale on them.

I haven't gone to the trouble to check ALL of ABONCOM's coin auctions but, the many I have looked at all have the serial numbers digitally greyed out and are accompanied with the blank pro-forma COA.

MORE PROOF other than the domain ownership of ABON.COM and STARGRADING.ORG being one and the same, that they are. Otherwise, how can ABONCOM offer blank pro-forma COA's?

Now by removing the serial numbers on the actual coin slabs offered in the auctions they can now take any coin and slab/grade/authenitcate it create a matching COA and send it to you instead of the actual coin pictured in the auction.

This in itself seems to be a violation of e-Bay rules.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html

# Include a clear picture of the actual coin or paper money item that you are offering for sale

# Specifically identify every individual coin or paper money item listed to avoid misunderstandings about the nature of your items. .

This is NOT what ABONCOM is doing. By digitally removing the serial numbers on the slabbed coin they are NOT sending you that exact coin and probably have no intent to do so. They are removing that coins specific identity.

This is their easy solution to the old "BAIT and SWITCH" game.

I haven't taken the time to write e-Bay regarding ABONCOM's appearent bending of the rules with coins. I did write to e-Bay regarding their selling of Silver Strikes using a Chip Grading Scale and problems with their identification. I receive an e-mail back acknowloging my expertise as a Silver Stike collector (I authored the first price guide) but they cannot guarantee anything and that I should ask questions of the seller!!!! Yeah right ask this person who know's nothing about these tokens and cannot read? Yeah right. So far I have let it go. I just feel sorry for the many bidders who bid on the casino items. Thankfully, some have gone under value and some have questionable higher prices. I've tried to keep my collecting friends abreast of what's happening on their message boards.

Question now, is ABONCOM breaking e-Bay rules by digitally greying out the serial numbers on the slabs?

 

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kinda...

The SGS "serial numbers" are nothing more than a numerical description of the date/Mintmark/grade. ALL 2005P MS70 Kennedy halves would have IDENTICAL numbers (something like 2005P50.70). The point of blurring the numbers is to prevent people from realizing that they are scam artists who do all their own "professional" grading before they bid.

 

I have just been re browsing the seller's auctions and I have been noting some of the listed serial numbers listed within the descriptions. I agree they are NOT serial numbers at all.

More like model numbers...

I notice that there are 3 "2005 P MS70 SGS GRADED SLABBED SACAGAWEA DOLLAR" listed on e-Bay all with the exact "SERIAL NUMBER" of "05PMS70SAC" listed in the descriptions.

Same with 3 "2005 S OREGON PR70 CAM SGS GRADED WASHINGTON - OR" lots "SERIAL NUMBER" of "05PRORQTR".

Now if you read the COA, on their generic pro-forma, it states...

"YOUR INDIVIDUALLY REGISTERED SERIAL NUMBER HERE"

which implies "individuality" this serial number is unique to "YOUR" coin. It's NOT!

A serial number is a unique number applied to a product example, as opposed to a model number or type number. Each of a series of identical products has a different serial number. The term strictly applies only to numbers that increase by one for each unit (for example, 060001, 060002, 060003), but usage has expanded the term to refer to any unique alphanumeric identifier for one of a large set of objects.

Serial numbers are valuable in quality control, as once a defect is found in the production of a particular batch of product, the serial number will quickly identify which units are affected. Serial numbers are also used as a deterrent against theft and counterfeit products in that serial numbers can be recorded, and stolen or otherwise irregular goods can be identified.

So now if my SGS coin is stolen I just need to find someone else who has one with my uniquely registered number and have them put in jail for theft.

In my opinion these auctions are "FALSE AND MISLEADING" to the unsuspecting buyers. A serial number should imply some sort of security and uniqueness to that specific item. In these cases it does not.

And I've read within this forum (I think) that SGS/ABONCOM doesn't have any registry for their serial numbers and with a system like this they cannot prove a specific coin exists only that maybe thousand do.

 

Aboncom/SGS never stops amazing me. This one-in-the-same company preys on newbies and takes advantage of them. Only until an eBay buyer takes a SGS "graded" coin to a coin shop or show do they realize they made a mistake. That is, they get laughed out of the building.

Unfortunately, SGS is inviting more "slabbing" companies to go after newbie dollars. With that said, companies like Aboncom are doing more to "turn off" collectors that are entering numismatics for the first time...souring their first experience of buying coins.

 

Great thread folks, I had looked at SGS/ABONCOM auctions on numerous times. Someone who knows and is experienced in grading sees through the fog, but this is a very bad thing for the new collector and our hobby itself. All it takes is a new collector to get burned a few times and there out. Or at best they learn a very hard lesson.

 

This is what I meant when I remarked that E bay will drive many new collectors away.
There are GREAT dealers on E bay and I try to keep up with them.

Places like this forum need to be accessed by the new collector. The knowledge here and the willingness to help the new collector is awesome, I am going to recommend it to any and all new collectors as well as the seasoned vet!!

 

Ain't gonna happen. These new coin buyers are jumping out of the plane feet first with no idea how far down it is to the ground. By the time they realize that their 'chute isn't gonna open, it's too late and they splatter all over the pavement. Most newbies know very little about coins in general nor coin auctions, especially eBay, in particular and there is nobody out there to mentor them. Maybe only a very, very few even know that there are such things as coin forums and seek advice therein; these are the ones who strap on their 'chute before jumping and avoid landing in swamps. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism in place to guide new eBay coin buyers toward rational and knowledgeable choices and I couldn't even begin to speculate how such a mechanism might be implemented.

 

That is true, I go thru and look at the experience or feedback numbers and join date on the winners of some of these coins and they are new( At least to E-bay) and the prices they pay?? I guess they will have to learn. I did back in the 50's and 60's.

 

I just added the following to my note above on the e-Bay discussion board.

FOLLOW UP>>>

Now I really question the SGS COA statement further...

"YOUR INDIVIDUALLY REGISTERED SERIAL NUMBER HERE"

I've looked up the word "registered" at the Meriam Webster Online dictionary and here's the result...

Main Entry: register
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): reg·is·tered; reg·is·ter·ing /-st(&-)ri[ng]/

transitive senses
1 a : to make or secure official entry of in a register
b : to enroll formally especially as a voter or student
c : to record automatically : INDICATE
d : to make a record of : NOTE
e : PERCEIVE; also : COMPREHEND

2 : to make or adjust so as to correspond exactly

3 : to secure special protection for (a piece of mail) by prepayment of a fee

4 : to convey an impression of : EXPRESS

5 : ACHIEVE

intransitive senses
1 a : to enroll one's name in a register
b : to enroll one's name officially as a prerequisite for voting
c : to enroll formally as a student

2 a : to correspond exactly
b : to be in correct alignment or register

3 : to make or convey an impression

With many coins given the exact same serial number, I ask how can they be "INDIVIDUALLY REGISTERED" to ANYONE? Simple answer they can't since both you and I can have coins with ""YOUR INDIVIDUALLY REGISTERED SERIAL NUMBER HERE"! that are identical! WHAT A JOKE!

I further ask "REGISTERED WHERE?"

I (my opinion) don't believe either the Seller or SGS mantains any such register! They probably can't even tell the legal authorties how many coins have identical serials, so if your coins are stolen YOU'RE TOTALLY OUT OF LUCK.

Again their (SGS/SELLER) auctions regarding the COA's are "FALSE AND MISLEADING" to any buyer that isn't doing their homework on SGS SLABBED/GRADED/AUTHENTICATED coins. This shows that most NEW collectors to the hobby will be most likely turned off to the hobby if they fall for SGS slabbed items.

Just and idea here... Maybe e-Bay could protect their members by BANNING the sell of "any" SGS GRADED/SLABBED/AUTHENTICATED coins on e-Bay and leave the current seller('s) out of the ban. I've seen a few other seller's other than the "powerseller" offering the same SGS blank pro-forma COA's on SGS slabbed coins.
+++++

I just wonder if the moderators of e-Bay message boards forward any of this stuff to the powers that be? Probably not. But maybe they occationally read the board for themselves. Probably not. I wonder just how many e-bay'ers ever look and find the message boards? Probably very few, until they get burned!

It's almost a crime that e-bay knows about ABONCOM/SGS tactics and refuses to do anything about it.

 

I don't believe that eBay has the expertise to be able to differentiate between legitimate third-party graders and the wannabees although it now has the ANA as an advisor for coin and money categories. Also, if eBay banned SGS, it would also have to ban other similar fly-by-night personal grading "companies" such as FSG, NNC, CRC, PGS (all three of them), and NGS, to name a few. If it did it right, it would also have to go up the feeding chain and ban the more established, but disreputable grading companies such as NTC and AGC, and perhaps even PCI. It might prove difficult to draw the line between established and reputable companies and those which are ripoffs since there's several which are various shades of grey in the middle. And it would be almost a certainty that eBay would have a lawsuit on its hands if it attempted to grade the grading companies and ban some of them.

It's also hard to guess just how much eBay knows and reads about these message boards and forums, including its own Coins and Paper Money Forum. Certainly, it has someone constantly reading the posts on its own forum; if a post violates eBay's forum rules, it doesn't take very long for it to be yanked. I think at least some of our forums' messages make it up the chain of command; I believe that the forums' collective content was in large part responsible for pjd1966's suspension.

Nevertheless, it WOULD be nice if eBay were to take some action or at least issue a declaration of principles regarding third-party grading companies.