Greysheets allowed at coin shows?

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There is the Certified Coin Dealer Newsletter (bluesheet) for certified coins.

 

Based on my "vast" experience with coin shows [i.e., one], I didn't see anyone with a greysheet or redbook or any other price guide. People seemed to go there already knowing what they wanted and how much they were willing to pay.

 

"About half of the dealers at coin shows I've been to do not have prices on their coins and when you ask for such a price, they first look at you then at the grey sheet. I would suspect this is they try to see if you look like you could afford the highest price they state." JUST CARL


At the last coin show I went to a man, who looked to be homeless by the way he dressed, went around with a Coin Values magazine buying from a number of dealers. I know he must have spent 10x what I did. Maybe, he does what many collectors do. Check 2 or 3 references and use a percentage of the listed value in the guide.

As for myself, I go with a list of coins that I did some pricing research on, and try to buy the coins within those guidelines.

Bruce

 

When I go to shows I usually have a Greysheet and a copy of Coin Prices with me. These are sheerly for reference to get a feel for the prices.
I don't want to pay Coin Prices retail and don't generally expect Greysheet bid. Coin dealers gotta eat too.

Knowing what you want and what you'll pay beforehand is the best but it is nice to have backup if needed.

Most of the dealers I'll go to know me anyway. Usually a quick and painless process.

NOW, I HAVE seen newbies make total fools out of themselves with a Greysheet in hand. Walk up to a table like they own it and start quoting bid prices. Damn near smacked one upside the head one day to hear his walnut of a brain rattle around.
I was not impressed and neither was the dealer.

If the price is not for you then move along. I have one dealer at shows that has "wiggle" room. He knows what he wants but also knows what he'll take. I have no problem with that.

 

I think it is fine to have a greysheet or any other price guide, but to a certain extent you will have to let them make a bit of money so getting bid greysheet pricing is going to be the exception rather than the rule. Usually, unless the coin is super PQ+++ for the grade, you will meet in the middle of bid and ask, or ask for price. Generally if you are polite and say you will pass, there are no ill feelings if an offer beyond what you want to pay is rejected by either party. Some dealers are -----'s and so are some brokers, buyers/collectors. I try to deal with the civilized crowd or I just don't buy from them.

 

Nobody can stop you from looking at your own notes. I go to shows with handwritten and sometimes printed notes on prices, cat numbers etc.

 

actually, to paraphrase Doug:

they believe in "knowledge ..... (don't) share it"

 

Hey, some of have day jobs, take it easy on us. But I'm sure you speak volumes...

 

I can't imagine going to a show without doing some research, but also bringing a greysheet along. I found that the greysheet is just a touch point to give you some reference point, but really should not be considered as an absolute on prices. For example, in my limited experience buying large cents from specialists, the greysheet is way under what they will sell as their best offer price (and deservedly so for many of their coins are nice examples). I also don't wave it the dealer's face, but I also don't try and hide the document either. Best to show you're not uninformed and it may help when you ask the dealer for their best price.

It's best to get familiar with a particular coin you are after by doing some on-line research on historical auction prices (free info from HA.com, teletrade, ebay) so you can get a feel for what the market is commanding. Obviously, this is a generic reference and has to be mitigated by the attractiveness of the coin despite the assigned grade (the old adage..."buy the coin, not the slab"....). Having this info and combining it with patience is the key. I like to wander through the whole show first seeing what's available, taking a few notes, and then circle back to the coins/dealers of interest. If the coin is way off from your research, you must have patience and believe it will come your way again at another show or for sale on-line (with return priviledges only!).

I'm no expert, but this has worked for me.

 

The bluesheet is only for sight-unseen transactions. This often assumes that a certified coin is not particularly nice for the grade and is essentially trading as a number on a holder.

I never mind collectors using a Greysheet at a show and will often show them my Greysheet as I am pricing a coin to them. The only thing I would wish is that some who buy a Greysheet better understand what they are using. I will often try to sell as close to the Greysheet levels as possible, but it is a wholesale tool and is also subject to much manipulation.

Every so often, a collector will want to buy a coin like a Matte Proof Lincoln or a graded early type coin, then whip out the Greysheet on me and expect me to sell it at bid. I usually respond by asking if they have any to sell me at that price.

 

You should quit your day job like me

 

I plan on doing that tommorow. BAD day at work.

 

You just run up against a cold deck, friend. You'll figure it out. They can't hold down a good half-human/half-vulcan forever.

 

Some people have a great way to make you understand what is really going on.... I like that one.

I very rarely see dealers selling at greysheet ASK, in fact it would seem to me that dealers use greysheet more for their own pricing, and what they are willing to pay for something.

I saw a couple people mentioning that greysheet was a wholesale price guide. Makes sense to me.

When I buy any kind of material I will shoot below greysheet, like a dealer, but I almost always find greysheet prices are not applicable to certified MS coins. What people are willing to pay on the open market for MS ,certified ,non-modern, US coin, is almost always higher than greysheet. In fact many internet dealers seem to do quite well using PCGS/ NGC price guides. MY local dealer seems to be able to sell certified coins pretty close to those guides as well.

I refuse to overpay for coins, and I find that if you stay as close to greysheet ask as you can you can almost always walk away feeling like you have recieved a fair price. This is especially rewarding when the coin you paid $300 for lists in the PCGS price guide for $500+.

Oh, and take whatever you want to a coin show if it is going to get you better deals like a leprachaun flute for example(JK). Also if some coin dealer wants to operate in his own little world, and make up his own prices so be it, but don't get taken advantage of.

 

Rarely if ever will you find a coin at bid for sale, but I have been fairly lucky usually paying between bid and ask for the right coin. Some coins are so nice in eye appeal and strike that you have to pay over ask since the market puts a premium on such coins so the greysheet pricing is merely a guide for how much over ask you are willing to pay.

 

"Sightseen wholesale prices for accurately graded US Coins certified or raw."

That is the statement on the front page of the greysheet. Like others have already said these are wholesale prices. Wholesale would typically be prices dealers would be willing to buy and sell amongst other dealers. I'm sure this is not always the case as people make up their own minds on what they actually do; however, I rarely see stuff advertised at wholesale prices, and rarely am offered these prices when dealing wiht a dealer.

It is hard for me to make money selling to a dealer, although it is possible and I sometimes do this. Usually in order to do this I would have had to purchase something well below the greysheet bid in order to turn a profit selling to a dealer as they will even slightly discount the bid price.

 

If you have a good relationship with a dealer you can get greysheet pricing if you know how to negotiate and if the dealer has room on it and is willing to pass the savings on to you. With that said, make sure the coin is all there and if it is a super nice peice, dripping with luster and is problem free, you will in most cases have to pay more. I have always thought it is better to pay a little more for such a coin, than too little for an average of slider for the grade. Just my 2 cents.

 

Certainly there are cases where people simply do not have even a clue as to the the rough value of something they are looking to buy but the plain fact of the matter is, values are arbitrary plain and simple...on forums when someone asks for a value or a price that can be expected I always give a middle ground between book and auctions (mostly auctions and realized sales for the type of coins I am interested in)...but again...that is still arbitrary and can end up being unrealistic more or less. Knowing what the price SHOULD be still may not be realistic. Its just not as simply as 'some people just dont know what they are doing when they pay more than you think a coin is worth.' In some cases it is, in other cases you can educate yourself till the cows come home but you cant predict the market and in the end, it dictates prices and is ever changing.

I would contend that a coin is worth how much a person can get for it, no more, no less. The value is set by how much a person will pay. Any source you would use to value a coin is subjective to those who are compiling that source and how they are computing the worth, often arbitrary. The only real way to set a real value on a coin is to look at the market itself and how much people are buying them for in the real world...thus auction prices and prices others are willing to pay for it are the only real reliable factors. I would never pay hundreds for a modern US penny...others would...how much they are willing to pay, in the end, sets the price for that penny. Most price guides are simply suggestions some people are making as to what they think they should go for...what someone thinks is fair using past sales or rarity as a basis...no more no less.

You can THINK you know the value of a coin and decide you will not pay more so you don't get taken and shake ones head at the uninformed who are paying what you think are high prices but if its hard to find and several people are wanting it as its a great specimen, the value will be set at the end of the auction plain and simple, you might not think its worth what the person paid for it, but that person walks away with it and you are without. Its like with notgeld, there is no real set price guide for these that are realistic, prices in the end fluctuate wildly...what one can buy in Germany for cheap isn't always easily found in the US...real world factors like these will set prices. Notgeld are supposed to be, on the whole, rather cheap and plentiful but try to find a dealer at a coin show in Houston that even knows what they are let alone sells them and you will understand what mean.

I once saw a medal that I thought was outstanding...I started bidding and the price went very high. I thought to, as mentioned here, educate myself so I don't pay too much so I ask some others I see as more knowledgeable about medals and prices and they quote some book prices for it...these prices they quoted were well lower than what the price went to in the end. I didn't go higher because I figured I didn't want to pay too much...happy that I didn't get taken like the uninformed other sucker who paid too much for the medal. I have never seen this medal for auction or for sale anywhere since. I now wish I had kept bidding.

As for 'problem' coins...and knowing what is or isn't problem coins...that term is so subjective (and always will be) it is almost laughable to see it used...certainly there are the objective obvious problem coins but often, to one person, a problem coin is one that has small marks when you magnify it X amount of times...others couldn't care less what it looks like under a microscope as long as it has great eye appeal...some people think a light rub with a soft cotton cloth will scratch metal to the point of ruining the coin!! Its very subjective and as much as people would like to enforce their own way, they just cant and that's good. Some of the things I have heard so called experts and well informed collectors say defy logic and are down right absurd, I don't want them dictating standards.