Is the slabbing of coins a fools paradise?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by James O'Brien, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. James O'Brien

    James O'Brien Active Member

    Are eBay sellers abusing 'slabbed' coins?
    What should eBay do about it?

    I use an example of a slabbed Irish 1961 Halfcrown 'mule'
    with an asking price of £10,549 Stg + another £75 for 'economy' delivery

    The coin was slabbed by NGC (a reputable grader)
    • NGC is not at fault here
      • The coin is genuine
      • The variety is as described
    • The seller is 100% at fault here
      • False advertising (this coin is not rare)
      • Price gouging (this coin is worth a small fraction of the stated price)
    Full article here:
    https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2014/08/23/to-slab-or-not-to-slab-that-is-the-question/
     
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  3. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    "Is the slabbing of coins a fools paradise?"

    No, but there are plenty of fools, both buying and selling, on FleaBay. ~ Chris
     
  4. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Slabbing coins is a GREAT help to me.
    People who specialize in one or two designs such as Morgan Dollars and LWC's have spent the time (or at least should have) learning the design aspects of those issues.
    They can collect without depending much on the TPG's.
    On the other hand my main collection is a type set, 1793-1964.
    That's 119 different designs of which I have 117.
    I cannot know the details of all of them, so I have to depend on the major TPG's (NGC and PCGS) to certify them for me.

    They tell me if the coins are legitimate.
    They tell me if the coins have original surfaces (not cleaned, not altered, etc.).
    They verify varieties if I request that.
    They assign a grade.
    Plus I get very good holders for storage protection (slabs).

    I gladly pay for that.
     
  5. James O'Brien

    James O'Brien Active Member

     
  6. James O'Brien

    James O'Brien Active Member

    I appreciate your dilemma.
    That is a very difficult set to collect.
    Kudos for accumulating 117 out of the 119
    - that required a lot of patience and effort.

    You have obviously also accumulated
    enough specialist knowledge along the way
    so as not to pay £10,549 for a coin that's
    obtainable for less than £500.

    I am not saying that 'slabbing' is bad,
    or that it is poor value for money.
    (You made a very clear case for the benefits of slabbing)

    My gripe is with the eBay sellers who 'use' the pieces of info
    that are correct, to disguise the pieces of info that clearly are not.

    If you look at the example, you will see:
    a) the NGC info is 100% accurate
    b) mixed in with it, is the lie that this coin is RARE
    c) and then the BIG LIE at the end... the ridiculous price tag!

    I feel eBay could/should do more re 'feedback' on seller descriptions
    BEFORE an obviously fraudulent sale takes place.
     
  7. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Last I saw, eBay didn't have someone who could render a reasonable opinion about coins and paper money.
    And I strongly suspect that's on purpose.
    Plus no matter what the outcome would be, eBay has it set up so that they are "no fault".
     
  8. Dug13

    Dug13 Well-Known Member

    It’s not just coins.....it’s practically every category of collectibles and merchandise on ‘bay. Every category ( auto parts, tools, cook ware etc.) has grossly overpriced listings. I have seen $50.00 gift cards listed for several hundred dollars each. Who would buy a gift card for four times face value?
    Think money laundering.
     
  9. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Wait a minute! Your type set consists of 119 different designs, and the TPG's can attribute all of your varieties. That's nice, but there are about 4,000 different VAM's for Morgan & Peace Dollars, but neither NGC or PCGS will attribute more than a few hundred. ~ Chris
     
  10. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    It helps for a collector to know what he’s doing. That goes for slabbed coins as much as raw ones.
     
    Troodon likes this.
  11. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Look at the NGC Registry Type Set or the Red Book (and I guess the PCGS Registry Type Set).
    Those pretty well define a type set and that's by design.
    Varieties are a different beast; they are unintended differences.
     
  12. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    If that is the case, then why did you bring it up in your Post #3, making it sound like it isn't necessary for Morgan collectors?

    Don't get me wrong! I understand why the TPG's can perform a necessary service for you, but PLEASE!, don't make it sound like Morgan collectors have an easy task with just one design.....with thousands of VAM's. ~ Chris
     
  13. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Then your initial premise is incorrect - it isn't the slabbing that is bad, it is greed and preying on the ignorant. This is done whether the coins are slabbed or not, even if the information provided by the seller is correct.
     
  14. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    Purchasing slabbed coins of key date that are counterfeited often is necessary IMHO. If I purchase a 1916-D Mercury Dime or 1916 SLQ, it will be slabbed by NGC or PCGS.
     
  15. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    Last I heard the A.N.A library had 30,000 books. It's probably 40,000 by now. Members in chat rooms such as CT happily answer questions all the time. Plus there are archived messages. Coin World digital can be had for $20 a year. Used reference books can be found on ABE and Amazon, usually on the cheap. I just bought a book on Florida Trade Tokens from Amazon for $26 shipped. And it's in great condition. Even a new reference book is probably no worse, price wise, than a university textbook.

    Numismatic knowledge is very inexpensive. I have no sympathy for those don't avail themselves of it.
     
    TheFinn, Troodon and Jaelus like this.
  16. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    No, at most, the seller only shares blame here. Any buyer who would spend a 5-figure sum on such a coin without performing basic due diligence to establish the coin's value range is equally at fault.

    You chose, bewilderingly, to make this a slabbing issue, but slabbing has zero impact on your example. A slab says nothing about value or rarity, only authenticity and condition.

    Some eBay sellers routinely assign outrageous prices to low value coins, both slabbed and unslabbed. Anyone who accepts at face value what a seller says about a coin, slabbed or not, should not be buying coins on eBay.
     
  17. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    I would hope the buyer would do the homework before forking out huge cash on a coin. The certification has nothing to do with the inflated price but has to do in finding a sucker dumb enough to purchase the coin at that price.
     
    Troodon likes this.
  18. Troodon

    Troodon Coin Collector

    On one hand, I wish sellers were more honest, yes, but on the other, buyers should do basic research and educate themselves before they spend money on coins (or anything else for that matter). I'm not a fan of TPGs in general but even I can't say that they're the problem here. NGC honestly and competently authenticated the coin, identified it, and gave it a grade; that's all they're responsible for doing.

    There's a non-zero chance that the seller honestly doesn't know what the value is or is just being unrealistically optimistic. Just because they're asking that price doesn't mean they'll ever get it. I see plenty of similarly ridiculously overpriced items on eBay and I have to think it's unlikely they ever sell for what they're asking.

    In the end I have to reject the premise that "eBay sellers (are) abusing 'slabbed' coins." They're attempting (but definitely not always succeeding) at abusing potential buyers' lack of knowledge. I think they are wrong for doing so, but if buyers take it upon themselves to educate themselves about what they buy, then such sellers won't be able to get away with it. Coveat emptor (may the buyer beware).
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  19. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Like others say, not a slabbed versus unslabbed issue. It is an issue of some sellers simply liking to troll for idiots on Ebay a lot.

    I use Ebay for some stuff, but too much crap and massively overpriced stuff nowadays.

    Now, if you wish to postulate that by selling slabs the seller is preying on people believing they are safer buying slabbed coins.......it may be true but not the fault of the TPG that their products are being used this way. They cannot control how people buy and sell slabbed coins.
     
    Troodon likes this.
  20. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Some people collect them and others don't. Some people like them and others don't. It's all a matter of preference.
     
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