Outstanding Article In COINWORLD

A buyer is still supposed to pay sales tax if applicable assuming the seller is under the threshold for a particular state, but yea a lot of administrative fees and the selling fees get eliminated and the nonsense of fees getting charged to sellers for a price that includes sales tax. The auction houses that deal mostly in high end stuff almost certainly won't be threatened, but there could be a day where things like IG do make a big difference for other houses or force fees down for them to stay competitive. I would guess eBay has already felt it in coins to some extent as eBay was the go to for a long time for things that the big houses either didn't want/wouldn't sell or the fees made it unrealistic to sell at a big house.

 

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Not 100% sure here, but I think eBay does NOT charge FVF on sales tax. Since that part never gets remitted to the seller, they'd effectively be taking a cut from the receiving state, and I'm quite sure that's not allowed.

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's just their policy. It's not violating any laws, but that seems to be what they do here.

 

Check the changes for them and paypal, maybe it was just paypal but unless they made a change the total is being processed as one amount and then the tax is being removed which means the fees are being charged on the total. Before they were two separate things

 

One thing I gathered from reading this COINWEEK article was the general undercurrent of disappointment in the market this past year . A number of factors are behind this. Despite the market correction after 1989, when the market peaked, many coins are still over-valued to the point that new collectors aren't entering the hobby. I emphasized the word hobby because many collectors today place more importance on investment value versus history & aesthetics. You're not going to lure new collectors with a limited budget by stressing investment potential . "Lets wake up & smell the coffee". One thing that annoyed me with this article was no mention of ancient & medieval coins . The ancient & medieval coin market has shown significant growth over the last few years from new collectors & veteran collectors who are not interested in overpaying for modern slabbed coins with high mintage's, little historical interest, & poor aesthetics. There are fascinating ancient coins for all budgets . What coin would appeal to a high school kid more, a 1960 small date cent in MS65 RD, worth $20, or a bronze follis of Constantine the Great, that is nearly 1,700 years old, in VF condition, that has been hand struck from hand engraved dies & retails for the same money ?

 

At this point eBay does not charge final value fees on sales tax.
PayPal does take their 2.9% fee from sales tax.

From what I have seen, if a $100 item sells on eBay to someone who also paid 5% in sales tax (just picked an easy to use number), the following happens:

1) $105 shows up as the total payment
2) PayPal takes 2.9% + their $0.30 flat fee from the $105
...so ($105 x .029) + $0.30 = $3.05 + $0.30 = $3.35
3) eBay takes 10% (assuming no store) from the sales price without tax
....so ($100 x .1) = $10

Edit: so the sales tax increases your fees by $0.15 cents in the above example....it's not a ton (and most people won't even notice). However, for those with many transactions, it can add up.

 

Here are the two links that should help:

https://www.pcgs.com/cert

For PCGS (if you are using the desktop version; app or mobile will be a bit different), after you enter the cert number, a table shows up on the left side with information. Look for "Population" and "Pop Higher"
On the right side, there is room for a TruView image and below that
"View this coin in PCGS CoinFacts" ....this will get you even more info (including pop numbers for other grades).

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/

For NGC (if you are using the desktop version; app or mobile will be a bit different), after you enter the cert number, a table shows up on the right side with information. Look for "Total Graded by NGC" and "In Higher Grades"
You can also click that area for a more detailed census.

-----
One can also go directly to population reports:
https://www.pcgs.com/pop/uscoins

https://www.ngccoin.com/census/

 

OK...surprising.....I figured I was making it easier for everyone to read the article and also if it ever disappeared, we wouldn't be drawing blanks.

And I did give the link so as not to steal any clicks from the site.

 

One thing strikes me from a technical POV as an investment analyst....you have NEVER had a period from the 1970's where the coin hobby could price on natural supply and demand. You've ALWAYS been beseiged by soaring or plummeting PM prices and/or bubbles:

• 1970's: Gold price up 20-fold, inflation quadruples, exchange rates unfixed, coin prices soar.
• 1980's: Coin prices collapse after 1980, gold cut in half, silver more.
• 1990's: Coin prices soar (1989-90) early on then collapse with most coins down 75%.
• 2000's: Coins leverage to bullion shows as their prices "race ahead" twice when gold moves (2000 and then again in 2010). Overshoots lead to corrections.

Good point on the ancients, I've taken to them from an aesthetic and investment POV but I have NO IDEA what to buy, when to buy it, price, etc.

Considering Doug/GDJSMP says they've been in a 16-year bull market, how do I know I'm not the sucker at the top of the market coming in who'll be under water a ton in a few months or quarters ?

Could be my personal recreation of folks who bought in during 1980, 1989, or 2007.

 

GoldFinger1969, You raise some excellent points . I wouldn't encourage anyone to jump into ancient coins on a whim, or start buying expensive coins blindly with no exposure to the market. Fortunately there aren't any large dealers, companies, auction houses, or organizations that have control of the ancient coin market . Collectors who are entertaining the idea of getting into ancient coins need exposure to what is going on in the market & a good place to start is here on CoinTalk in the Ancients forum. There have been well over 20,000 threads posted on that forum ! There are unseen factors that can have a major impact on the ancient & medieval coin market that don't exist with modern coins , like newly discovered hoards that are constantly entering the market from Europe & the Mideast . The good news is these hoards are usually absorbed into the market without without a major impact of falling values . A good case in point is a hoard of 20,000 Athenian Owls that started entering the market last year, see photos below. This hoard was supposedly found somewhere in Turkey, & many of these coins are still being unloaded by dealers & auction houses. Harlan Berk estimates there are well over 100,000 of these coins in collector's hands, which means they are very common, yet these coins are very popular & choice well struck examples still bring high prices .


Athens, 454-404 BC, AR Tetradrachm: 17.22 gm, 25 mm, 3 h.


Athens, 454-404 BC, AR Tetradrachm: 16.87 gm, 23 mm, 4 h.

Both photos are courtesy of Roma Numismatics, London. The top example would grade Ex Fine & retail for $1,500. The bottom example was struck on an undersize planchet & would grade almost V. Fine & retail for about $250.

A caveat that exists with modern coins also plagues ancient coins, fakes & copies. It's very important to by from dealers & auction houses that guarantee what they sell & offer a return option for questionable coins. Special care should be taken on eBay purchases from dealers in Eastern Europe .

 

Part 2 of the review was posted while we were at FUN, so here it is: https://coinweek.com/dealers-compan...-bisognani-ninth-annual-market-review-part-2/

Some more interesting points here:

1. The way we buy and sell coins is changing rapidly
2. One of the dealers pointed out that there are actually quite a few young people in the hobby (the hobby isn't dying!) - they just don't go to shows. So if you look at the collectors on facebook and wherever, its a fairly young crowd. If you look at the coin shows, its an older crowd.
3. There seems to be a widespread belief that 2019 was kind of the bottom of the market and things are looking to be on an upswing.

 

Yeah. It is sad, but I never risk buying a cheaper item on HA unless I know I am buying many things in that auction. Their S&H is very high for an inexpensive shipment.