Can anyone here point out a PF-70 fron a PF-69?

Probably the goofiest question ever asked on this forum. I, cannot see any difference between a PF-69/70

 

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What kind of coin is it? That seems to influence the higher grades/value more than common modern.

 

For example the recent 1989 UK Proof set/ Wreath Crown was posting. This would mostly be for proof issues struck after 1960. Older coins are impossible even in PF-67/66
John

 

I really wonder if the TPGSs can tell the difference between 69/70.

 

Well, they really suck big time in grading hammered stuff. Some MS-64/65s are designated as EFs in UK/ Europe. Then some MS-62s look better then 66s in odd cases.

 

I feel like it's almost a random selection; every 87th that comes through is a 70

 

Nice one. I should remember that 87th you say.....sure about that!!!

 

I believe that if you look at enough of them, eventually you can pick out the tiny little flaws that downgrade the coins to 69. Not enough of a flaw that I would ever care about, but to some they seem to care, (at least their registry set cares I guess).

As for European EF, it used to be the same as ancients grading for medieval coins. An EF in ancients is sort of like BU, with FDC being a superlative example. I still like ancient grading over the US numerical system, since the US system was not built for hand struck coins, where style, centering, etc can be more important than wear.

 

I really can't say it would be the strike quality coz its too close to call. I suspect it has more to do with the general condition of the blank and how clean it is. IMHO the 70s don't or shouldn't have any hint of the slightest blemish on the mirrored fields but I'm sure the experts will point out how stupid I am

 

I wouldn't believe anyone who said they could tell the difference between photos of a PF69 and a PF70. I could probably tell the difference between US coins if I had them in hand. ~ Chris

 

But before they were slabbed.....Correct??!! Just out of curiosity, if you had 5 coins to look at, how long would it take to identify the PF70s vs the 69s.

 

I would have a distinct advantage over the typical grader at a TPG because I am not on the clock. It's not a race to see who is faster. ~ Chris

 

I didn’t mean it that way. What I was trying to establish is that I would spend a LOT of time identifying the minute blemishes. Would you also require time or as I expect, you would be a lot quicker than me.

Also with the TPGs it’s not an absolute science so its probably a very subjective issue.

 

What I find curious is the differences between 70's. I wonder why no one in the hobby has been trying to promote what they view as a "70+" since if you go to a show you can definitely see differences between 70's, and I do not mean 69's labelled 70's but superior and inferior coins in the same grade. It is an area of the hobby where someone could cherrypick if they liked these, and build superior MS70 coins versus average.

Not my cup of tea at all, but if that is your think then go for it. Things I collect aren't for most people either.

 

I’ve seen plenty of 70’s develop spots. So a 70 today is not necessarily a 70 tomorrow. Food for thought.

 

If Heritage sends in a coin with 3 tiny imperceptible nicks, it's a 70.
If you send in a coin with 2 tiny imperceptible nicks, it's a 69.

 

Quite so. It really boils down to what the grader had for lunch.......bologna & cheese-'69. Ham on rye-'70.

 

When I look at a proof coin, the first thing I look for are tiny pinpricks in the frost that sparkle when under light. These are usually the flaws that knock a 70 down to a 69, and it doesn't take long to spot them. ~ Chris

 

It isn't that there are differences between 70's. A 70 is supposed to be a perfect coin, and some graders might miss the tiny marks that would relegate the coin to a 69. ~ Chris

 

That's an old wives tale. The graders don't know who submits the coins! ~ Chris