VALENTINIAN(s) identification

ValentinianII
Ae 2 5.18g. 24 mm. Antioch
DN VALENTINIANVS PF AVG / GLORIA RO-MANORVM

I won some nice coins at the last Ares Numismatic auctions. This one is an upgrade of my (very) worn Valentinian II specimen. Got it for peanuts. But when the time came for me to verify the exact attribution, I suddenly remembered that it’s a real challenge to distinguish some issues between the father and the son. Here are some reasons why :
They often have the same obverse legend on their coins.
Portraits are very similar on their coinage.
Many times they both share the same reverse, same types and their coins were strucked at the 15 same mints...
So how is it possible to make the difference between Val Senior and Junior? There is no simple answer or trick. We have to use a combination of observation to discover who is the good emperor on our coins. Then I present to you the result of my research, hoping it would help you sometimes in the future.

The obverse legend
The most common legend that both rulers share is DN VALENTINIANVS PF AVG. But by the time of Valentinian I it had become a fixed convention that a reigning emperor always have a broken legend . For the romans the unbroken legend was the mark of an Augustus who was not merely a boy in years but was still under the guardianship of a reigning father or elder brother. Another clue : after the death of Val Senior, Val II had initially an unbroken legend or the addition of IVN that made it clear who he was. “When the distinction was no longer felt to be necessary, his legend would be the same as his father’s”(RIC IX xxxviii). Let’s remember here that the letters IVN (iuventis) means “junior”. So to make things clear, if your Valentinian coin has a continuous obverse legend or the IVN, it is surely Val Junior. But if you have the broken legend, be careful because 100% of Val I coins has this characteristic but around 30% of Val II coinage has it too...

The portrait
Valentinian I was Augustus from 364 AD to 375 AD. He was 43 years old at the beginning of his reign and died at the age of 54. His son then became Emperor at she age of 4 (!) and was found hanged in his residence in 392 AD at the age of 21. So on his coinage Junior is depicted younger and thinner, some says even weaker. At the opposite, the father’s appearance looks older with a full, heavy face. It is not an absolute way to distinguish the 2 men, but after examining hundreds of pictures of them I’d say it’s a quite reliable rule to identifying them.

The reverse legend
Like it was explained before, Val I and II share several reverse legend and types. Meanwhile, some of them had only been use for one of the rulers. Here they are :


Conclusion
The reason why we love so much collecting coins is because we can learn something new every day. We like it when we have to dig deep for researching and identifying our little treasures. The Valentinians are emperors who sometimes give us headaches, but that’s part of the fun, don’t you think so ? Please show me your Val I and Val II examples !

 

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Here is Valatinian I, it is a FELICITAS ROMANORUM reverse did both rulers have this reverse ? I have not found any info on this one anywhere on the internet searches.

 

I don’t have a val II just a common val I

Valentinian I Æ 3 , Siscia mint

Obv:- DN VALENTINI-ANVS PF AVG , Pearl diademed, draped, cuirasses bust right.

Rev:- GLORIA RO-MANORVM , emperor in military dress, advancing right, head left, holding labarum, dragging captive behind him.

Mintmark:dotGamma SISC

RIC IX Siscia 5a, type ii

 

Nice new pickup. Here’s my Valentinian I.

Valentinian I, AE Follis (19 mm, 3.37 g), Sirmium, 364 AD, D N VALENTINI-ANVS P F AVG Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust to right. Rev. VOT / V / MVLT / X in four lines within laurel wreath; in exergue, BSIRM.

 

Your coin is certainly rare. Even no examples in Nummus-Bible-Database. A short lived local issue. I could only found one other specimen. I joint a copie of page 86 of an old version of RIC IX :

If you want you can submit your coin here:http://www.nummus-bible-database.com/

 

Valentinian I





Valentinian II





Valentinian II





Just a few from uncleaned hoard...

 

Cool 8 siliqua medallion (not mine) of Valentinian I

 

Excellent bit of research there, and sure to be helpful to others in the future. Nice coin too.

 

Here is what I think is a Valentinian I? SECVRITAS REIPVBLICAE type. The mintmark confuses me. Sisicia? Sirmium? Dot - Delta - SIMB ?



Furthermore - is that a cleft chin?

 

Rare and in great shape, I have been watching that spec myself. For the late roman bronze types an excellent type classification can be found on Mr. Esty's great site: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/ricix/type11.html

 

I have some from all 3 Valentinians....two from Kunker Auctions
The Val. III example is really attractive/ most are badly struck.

 

My friend @panzerman I can tell you one thing : we will not find nicer examples than yours on this thread !

 

At least in gold

Excellent writeup and explanations @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix !

Valentinian I :


Valentinian I, Siliqua Constantinople mint, 4th officina
DN VALENTINI - ANVS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VOT V in a laurel wreath, CP.delta at exergue
1.57 gr
Ref : RC # 4097v, RIC IX # 13a, Cohen # 69



Valentinian I, AE1 - Nicomedia mint, 1st officina
D N VALENTINI ANVS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
RESTITVTOR REIPUBLICAE, Valentinian standing left, head right, holding standard and vicotry on globe. SMKA at exergue
9.66 gr
Ref : Cohen # 30, RIC #7a (R2), LRBC #2321


Valentinian II :


Valentinianus II, Siliqua Lyon mint, 2nd officina
D N VALENTINIANVS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VRBS ROMA, Roma seated left, holding victory and sceptre, LVGPS at exergue
1.88 gr
Ref : Roman coins # 4158, Cohen# 76



Valentinianus II, AE2 - Constantinople mint, 4th officina
D N VALENTINIANVS P F AVG, Helmeted, diademed, cuirassed bust of Valentinian, holding spear in right hand
GLORIA RO-MANORUM, Valentinain standing on a galley, driven by a victory, Wreath in field, CON delta at exergue
4.93 gr
Ref : RIC # 52, Cohen #22, RC #4161, LRBC #2151

Q

 

Thanks Guys Great coins/ writeups Can never get tired of seeing more coins....such a beautifull hobby.

I have been put to work by my wife, cleaning house after the big Christmas dinners/ parties....slavery still exists in Orleans
John

 

Thanks for your participation @Cucumbor . Your examples of Val I, as well as the ones of @Tony1982 and @Shea19 illustrate well what is the “full, heavy face” of the Emperor. I used this expression to be polite. Between you and me, what I meant was “chubby face”.

 

Great AE1 of Nicomedia! 9.77 grams is awesome!

 

Here's a Val I AR Miliarense, the only one of these types I own. These are the largest silver late Roman types, with this one being 23mm.

 

Obv: dn valentinianus pf avg
Rev: gloria romanorum
Mint: asisc
Size: 17mm 2,18g

So it is the Valentinian i or ii ?

 

Its Val. I

 

Still cannot find an ID for this coin. My issue is the "V" in left field, I have not found any samples of this on wildwinds, is it simply unlisted or published in another book?? I have attached
the wildwinds ID's for the closest one for a Valentinian I that I could find,
what am I mistaking NOW???