I have just got my son into coins and we found this very odd 1958 Lincoln Cent is some change his grandfather gave him. It appears to be a 1958 Lincoln Cent with some die clashing of some kind. There are weird very faint letters on the field and possible doubling of some kind on the legend, especially noticable on "Liberty" and the 2nd T in "Trust", as well as the date. I think the doubling may just be MD, but I don't trust my eyes anymore. Attached are some pics and some close ups of the weird lettering. Do you see what I see? It also has some vertical lines just beneath "In" on the obverse, NW area. It almost looks like the steps from the reverse, or even some kind of imprint from a newer shield penny? Not sure how that would even be possible. What's odd is that they are not reverse letters like I would expect if it was somehow imprinted from another coin. The "ES" just to the right of the dark spot near his shoulder and the "G" just north of that are what first caught my eye. Then I started seeing other letters and numbers as well. I think I see "Trust" or "Just" upside down, across his nose too, but it is very small. I also seesa "GL" upside down, just behind his eye, clear as day. I going crazy? Any thoughts?
No to all. Sorry. When you look too hard you start seeing strange things. It's called Paredolia. Happens a lot with new collectors. Coins are not recycled in that manner to have something imprinted from a previous cent nor a shield cent. Impossible. Welcome to CoinTalk. Mr. Ed (34 years mint error specialists)
The paredolia is stimulated by the enlargement of the cameras image when it doesn't have enough pixels so the software has altered to 'fake' pixels by filling in gaps and color. The brain likes straight lines and images it is used to see, so that is what your brain tells you are see when you look at it and not what is really there. It happens to many people , they want to see something so badly Jim
Thank you for your honesty Mr Ed. Problem is, I wasn't looking hard. I am 100% positive the items are there. I am just curious as to how they got there. Die clash was the only mint error I could think of, but personally, I am leaning towards it being some kind of tarnish or oxidation from another coin, sitting in the bottom of a big penny jar for years or something. Problem with that, is the letters are not backwards. Your wisdom is not being questioned at all. But I have had multiple pics taken in different lighting and three different people physically look at it. All of them see the letters and numbers, but none are experts by any means. Just looking for theories as to how they got there.
This reminds me of that kid claiming he had a FEC clash on a modern LMC. I'm starting to be cynical and automatically assume posts like these are troll posts.
Well alright then.... So Maybe not 100%. As I said before, I don't trust my eyes anymore. And the folks who did look at it were...again, not experts. I will gladly accept your conclusion as you both have years more experience and probably see a hundred coins like this a day. Paredolia it is. Thank you both for your time.
Seattlite86, I was never claiming to have a clash. I was asking how the letters could (being the key word) have been there and simply looking for advice on what I was seeing. If the powers that be think it's paredolia, who am I to argue. I joined this community because I thought it was a place where people could share information, ask questions and get answers from knowledgeable folks without a bunch of banter and sarcastic remarks. That said, while my mind and/or digital software may be playing tricks on me as far as the letters go, the vertical lines do exist and can be seen with the naked eye. Probably just a fingerprint, sure... but oddly enough, it does happen to line up with a modern shield cent reverse almost perfectly and I am still curious as to if it's possible for coins, stuck in a jar over long periods of time, to imprint onto another coin due to oxidation of different metals and the weight of say 10lbs worth of coins pressing down on it over years. If anyone would care to chime in without a bunch of unnecessary comments, by all means....
There are two things that are causing the look you are seeing. The first is just normal toning. Copper coins start toning the day they are minted. How they are stored effect how fast and how dark they tone. Second is how the coins are imaged. The images posted are blown up way too large to be useful. desertgem covered this really well in his post above. The software is adding pixels that create shapes that are not really on the coin. The software is trying to pick a color for the added pixels that will match best to the real pixels that the camera caught.
Sorry for how I came off, but I see time and again where people come in and refuse to heed the advice of those who have been at this for years, if not decades. Some have been repeat trolls who make new accounts and post ridiculous things to settle some sort of grudge. The banter often comes with the advice. The first thing you did to two of the most error-knowledgeable people on CT was argue with them. That's going to lead to more banter. If you can get past that, you'll do fine here. As to your question, contact between coins can certainly cause marks to show up from one to the other. Look how easy it is to transfer a fingerprint onto a coin. You don't need decades of heavy pressure to make this happen. This isn't a place where what one person says goes, because they're "the powers that be". Its a place where experts and beginners alike can discuss coins. There are those who come here trying to strike it rich, but don't want to bother learning anything about coins. There are others who learn and grow over the years. This hobby is not for everyone, but if you think it's for you, here's a great website to reference for errors: www.error-ref.com
The more you increase your magnifying the more anomalies you'll find. Anything over 10x is ridiculous as every coin would be an error. You have a normal cent.
A couple of other things you might consider is that the coin is slightly circulated, so there will be marks on any coin that were not mint caused. So odd scratches or indentations may fool the eye and brain which searches for form it knows. Also, the coin was made late in the die cycle as it shows die deterioration doubling ( no value as common) such as the "L" almost on the rim and other letters close, so hundreds of thousands of cents were struck with the die before yours, and as the die degenerates it spreads and also have small areas of chipping and eroding that may be seen with or without magnification. Keep it labeled and keep reading and learning. Even at more than 50 years of this I learn something new very often and so will you. Jim
