Best Looking Saint-Gaudens At MS65/64 Level ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GoldFinger1969, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Just curious...why do you say that the strike is "flawless" and the luster is "literally dripping off the coin." ?

    I don't necessarily disagree with you, I think this could be a case of the pictures NOT doing justice to the coin.
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To a degree it's a photographic thing, the pics exaggerate the effect. With coins that have frosty surfaces like that one it tends to happen.

    That said, the coin is an auto-pass in my opinion. Yeah, it's graded as the TPGs typically grade Saints, but it's grossly over-graded, it's not even MS. There's obvious wear on the leg. But that's to be expected as PCGS states in writing that coins with wear, particularly Saints, can be graded as high as MS67.
     
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  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    How can you have wear unless you circulate, and by definition if it's circulated it has to fall into AU or lower ?

    Do you have a link on PCGS stating that coins with wear can be as high as MS67 ?
     
  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    With the $20 St. Gaudens, you can get wear from stacking the coins, which was common practice when the coins were counted.
     
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  6. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I'll join in for this coin. I agree about the strike and luster both being fantastic on this one. They both help the coin. The color shows originality, but if you don't find it attractive, don't tell yourself that the number on the holder means you have to (cf. the technicolor $20 Liberty in 67 that Legend was selling). The booming luster hides the couple chopped rays and other marks that would make me say no to a higher grade.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You'll find it printed in black and white in the PCGS grading book.
     
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  8. ffcoins

    ffcoins New Member

    A lot of people like the 1920s strikes. A few if them can be had pretty cheap, too (1924, 1925, 1927).

    Well. Relatively cheap.
     
  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I wonder if the coin presses changed much from 1907 up to the mid-1920's to acount for better strikes.
     
  10. Rheingold

    Rheingold Well-Known Member

    I believe in progress in making the dies and the way they were prepared.
    The "machines" stayed the same in these 20 years.
     
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  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    If you are interested in this subject, pick up a copy of Roger Burdette's "From Mine to Mint." It discusses all of the technology the mint used and the process for making the coins, literally from raw ore to struck coin. Fascinating, thoroughly researched, and extremely informative reference.
     
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  12. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I got it, autographed too I believe, have to get back to reading it.

    Trying to read a BUNCH of books before FUN.

    Correction...trying to FINISH a bunch of books before FUN !! :D
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    When it comes to quality of strike the type of press being used has little to do with it. And if ya just stop and think for a minute that becomes pretty obvious.

    For example, a coin may be 6 or 7 hundred years old and yet have an absolutely superb quality of strike - and there wasn't even a press involved, it was a guy with a hammer. Or take some of the O mint Morgans, well known for being weakly struck - and yet the O mint was using the same presses the other mints were. And even beyond that, some of the O mint coins are known for having a very high quality of strike - from the exact same press that produced the weakly struck coins.

    See what I mean ? The press doesn't have anything to do with it. And the dies don't much matter either when it comes right down to it.

    The things that matter when it comes to determining whether a coin will be well struck or poorly struck are simple adjustments. Things like die spacing, die alignment, and pressure settings - those are the things that determine quality of strike. Get all of those just right and the coin will have a fabulous strike. But get just one of them wrong, and the strike will be of low quality. And this is true regardless of the press you use.

    And the reason I say the dies don't matter is because I don't care if you've got the highest quality of die that has ever been made - get the pressure setting too low and the quality of strike is gonna suck. Same with die spacing and alignment if ya get them wrong.
     
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  14. St Gaudens collector

    St Gaudens collector Active Member

    PCGS has never seen a 23-D it didn't like so be careful on condition.
    CAC likes them also and will bump for luster so again, watch condition closely.

    That being said, The 23-D is probably the greatest low budget toner.
    Post WWI coins are generally more shiny than pre-1920
    You are right about the 11-D being priced right but not much in the way of toning or luster.

    24 through 28 can be fun but finding a toner will take some devotion.

    My set of saints https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/go...ulation-strikes-1907-1932/publishedset/170023
     
  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    How do I find ARTICLES written for CT that lead on the front page, like one written on Saints by JohnMilton ?

    Can't find it/them using the SEARCH function. :mad:
     
  16. orifdoc

    orifdoc Well-Known Member

    For reference, this is a nice 14-S in a PCGS MS65+ CAC holder:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The ones on the front page are "Featured" articles. I don't think there's any way to search for just featured articles. If you know who wrote it, you can search for only threads by that person.
     
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  18. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Nice set!
     
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To the best of my knowledge he's right.

    edit - what you can do though is this. Type this - www.site:cointalk.com johnmilton featured saint - into the url box of a blank browser page, and then look at the results.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  20. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    I'm partial to "no motto" issues myself. Historically more interesting. A nice 64 can be had only a little over melt. 1908 St Gaudens MS64 LR.jpg
     
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  21. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    I was happy to score this well struck common date MS65 Saint several years ago. Many of the 1908 MS65 Saints I've seen are softly struck or struck from well worn dies. Quality of strike should be a strong consideration before shelling out money ;).

    1928 $20 MS65 CAC, obv..jpg 1928 $20 MS65 CAC, rev..jpg
     
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