Read the slab insert and then read the token (silver strike). Why on earth a person / company that claims to be a grading service inspecting coins and tokens could ever make this type of GROSS ERROR leads me to believe that they only slab and GUESS a grade for the tokens and do NOT visually inspect them. If they do they must have the WORST eyesight ever and should NOT be grading anything! If SGS cannot see the lettering RENO, NEVADA on this silver strike they shouldn't be in the grading/slabbing/authenticating business at all. Next problem I have is that they are grading a token using a Casino Chip Grading scale that is not recognizied by anyone other than those who wrote the book with it in it and are changing their book to conform with the Casino Chips and Gaming Tokens Collectors Club recently endorsed grading scale. Casino Chips are TOTALLY different from Casino Tokens as chips are not made of full metal as are tokens. More fuel fire for the ongoing battle against SGS SLABS! Marv
Thanks Speedy, Been there done that. Been lurking around for some time lately. Was a member previously but forgot the username I was using as my service providers changed. I really liked seeing the e-Bay auction alert created by "stainned" About time someone took SGS head on... I really mean ABONCOM! SGS/ABONCOM first silver strike attempt attribuited it to CHIPCO a casino chip manufacturer who has nothing to do with the making of casino tokens or silver strikes. Here's another problem with SGS's eyesight relating to inspecting their wares. Notice the CIRCA 1880 on the insert Now read it on the token itself.
I'm not at all certain about what can be done to curtail Aboncom's activities. We can file all sorts of reports with eBay and send off lots of emails, but as far as I know, he hasn't broken any laws nor violated eBay's terms of service. SGS, as Aboncom's personal certification company is a joke among the coin collecting community, but Aboncom makes no specific claims about SGS's grading accuracy. He doesn't sell fakes nor fail to deliver (with, perhaps some exceptions) and the coins he sells aren't particularly valuable (at least those I researched). He has a lot of negative/neutral feedbacks (382 of some 150K transactions), but he doesn't respond with threats a la Savannah Pamela. I suppose a case might be made for fraud, but this would have to be a legal process through the court system and probably a victim would have to initiate such an action which wouldn't be likely over a $26 loss. He also doesn't seem to be an ANA nor PNG member, so there's no peer nor professional organization pressure with which to apply pressure. I am also not certain that these organizations can do anything beyond their own borders. Perhaps with the ANA's new affiliation with eBay, something might be approached from that direction. Certainly, he's no Pamela Donnelly; it appears he's a lot smarter, so doesn't even come close to eBay's threshold of suspension. Ideally, Aboncom's buyer would be savvy and buy coins intelligently, but we'd don't live in an ideal world. Open to suggestions and ideas.
Morgan, I understand where you're coming from with the legal problems of going after SGS. However, I'll pose the question here I posted on e-Bay within a thread there regarding SGS's Certificate of Authenticity. I refer back to this token. Here is the COA that accompanied it. Here's and interesting Silver Strike which is an authentic error pictured on the left on the right is the correct version. Look at the clowns they are different. The Reno Circus Clown is the one shown on the Left as is the one in the first picture. While watching ABONCOM's auction I was hoping a newbie collector wouldn't mistake it as the Las Vegas Circus Circus Clown error which is quite expensive today. I acutally sniped the auction to keep this slab out or our silver strike hobby. The token is worth approximately $12 - $15. My question is regarding the COA? What if in some future date this token were to have sold for $1000 +, would SGS by their own statements on the COA "Certifies the authenticity of this gambling token for the full purchase price for the life of the gambling token". Is SGS liable for that purchase price if the seller were to refuse to make a refund on the basis that the token is not AUTHENTICALLY a Las Vegas, Nevada Circus Circus silver strike? They have authenticated this silver strike as being from the Las Vegas Circus Circus and it's NOT. Now ABONCOM in their auction did NOT make this guarantee, SGS does with their COA. The COA does NOT state that it is NOT transferrable and I wish to note there are other auctions which are not ABONCOM's that are selling the slabbed coins along with the SGS COA's. SGS just recently came to the market with slabbed/graded/authenticated casino silver strikes and tokens. I would expect some problems, but not such obvious ones of this nature. I hope to enlighten new collectors of coins and tokens alike that this seller/slabber should be avoided at all costs. THEIR EYESIGHT IS SO BAD THEY CAN'T EVEN READ WHAT'S WRITTEN ON THE ITEMS THEY ARE SLABBING. WITH EYESIGHT LIKE THIS NO WONDER ALL THEIR COINS GRADE AS 70'S! Regarding their COA's and ABONCOM, I'll start another topic. It's regarding their ability to bait and switch.
MGS is now selling MS71 coins!!! Attached is a coin I will be selling on ebay soon. Using SGS grading guidelines it is at least a MS71! And I found it in pocket change! If this sells I have a whole pocket full to slab.
"THEIR EYESIGHT IS SO BAD THEY CAN'T EVEN READ WHAT'S WRITTEN ON THE ITEMS THEY ARE SLABBING." I have seen PCGS and NGC slabs that contain labels with gross misidentification of the accompanying coin/token as well. Incorrect denomination or date, wrong merchant, wrong type of token, etc. I wonder about them as well.
cwtokenman, I don't belive those companies have opened themselves up to the possible legalities that SGS has with their COA statement, "Certifies the authenticity of this gambling token for the full purchase price for the life of the gambling token". It doesn't state this applies only to the original buyer nor does it state it's not transferrable. Any lawyers here?
I started a thread about SGS some time ago on the Ebay Community, it has over 80 responses. I am supprised at all the response it has gotten. As well, some of you know I run a auction on ebay every once in a while warning people about sgs coins, the emails I get a great. Most people thanking me for the auction warning. Now that Pamella is done for, maybe SGS is next!
Wankler, I noticed your thread there. I've been consistently adding to it. So, much so that, I got venturebuyer to post again after saying they had posted their last on the subject. Seems venturebuyer is agreeing with me regarding the false and misleading descriptions. I've been doing some deeper research on e-Bay and posting the results pn that message board. Looks like the messages are slowing down. Just wish more newbies would look at the messages there before they jump feet first into bidding on ABONCOM's auctions. BTW, I haven't seen any new casino token items from ABONCOM since the last group ended. Hopefully, it was all they had.
You started that!?!...ever notice my handle of "zakgold" and my battles with venturebuyer concerning SGS? He "throws up" legal arguments on this board that SGS is just as okay as PCGS, NGC, etc., but I still try to rattle him...for fun.
