American Eagle 2019 One Ounce Silver Enhanced Reverse Proof Coin

Wow in just 1 day the numbers have changed to 3776 graded and 3156 obtaining ER70.

 

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Possibly because with the percentage of 70's being reported a raw coin is seen as having more potential for receiving a 70 grade than resubmitting a 69 does.

You know the "raw has a high potential of becoming a 70 but a 69 IS a 69" viewpoint.

 

I think I going to trade my MS 69 for a gold coin...……… if no takers then going to keep it and see how much I lose over the long haul by not selling it in the beginning.

 

Uh-oh call me a conspiracy theorist but is this signalling trouble in paradise? My theory is the price is being driven at this point by dealers paying strong prices hoping to flip. But they need to get average collectors with deep pickets to get paid. I see this as dealers getting ancy and wanting to make their sales, but not many collectors are buying.

 

Yeah I heard most of the eBay sales were to dealers so there may be something to your theory.

 

You mean PF70 ?

 

On the NGC site they are listed as ER70's.

 

Take it for what's worth, but there are only 615 1995-W's graded 70 by NGC compared to 3156 2019 ER's graded 70 already with a lot more to come I presume.

 

I don't believe that even a few dealers with large inventory can control prices -- for long.

If prices are headed down, then apples-to-apples (raw vs. raw, PF69 vs. PF69, PF70 vs. PF70) we should see former prices going begging and completed sales priced headed lower.

 

Gotta have that two-letter abbreviation, I guess, and gotta distinguish it from regular proof (PR) and regular reverse proof (RP). Are the Enhanced Uncirculated issues EU, or just SP?

 

One benefit of keeping it raw is that you don’t have to figure out what random designation abbreviations the TPGs come up with.

 

I'll be honest. If Mike from the tv coin show wants to buy my coin for $2000, get it graded and flip it on the show for $3000 who am I to protest?

I'm sure more than a few are out there doing things like this to get the stock they need to then sell at even higher prices to their customers... like Littleton or other online sellers also but those TV guys for sure.

At some point the people selling to those dealers are gonna catch on and bump up their listings or run out of coins to sell them and the prices will go up until those dealers give up on it or can't make the money from their customers anymore.

Pinehurst looks pretty fair considering, but they got all their coins from somewhere early on. Probably people preselling and bounties for buyers. The late adopters come in higher ect. It's gotta peak and then come down a bit at some point I think, it always happens when things cool down and the hype dies off but still the coin shows on TV could really keep it up a while and buy up what they want and mark up higher and someone is gonna buy it out there. they wouldn't be on TV for so many years if people didn't buy from them. Sad but true.

Anyways. I'm sure there's something to the sales and dealers and all that jazz on ebay. At the end of the day the shows need products they can make money on and this coin is one of those things that they can pitch it's rarity and somehow justify to some people all over the U.S. it's worth more than an insane price so they can make some money for their show, and have that hot coin item you heard about on the interwebs for 48 low payments of $99.99 on the easy pay program lol.

Heck my LCS, if I'm looking for something he doesn't have, will buy it online and mark it up 30% and sell it to me. It's why I don't go there and just buy it online. I can do that myself, but for his customers he doesn't have to hold much inventory and can get what they want a week after they want it if he remembers to look for it and buy it. Everyone's got a business model I guess.

 

We'd IDed the TV buyers in the past, followed by mass text to raise. On occassion they can drive the numbers. Brought this up years ago but the dolts just found it easier to believe it was collector demand.
Watchcount used to have buyer history search and it made things a bit easier in addition to the one time their ship to gave it away. Large quantities with same ship to...Buteo Partners.
Whelp...who is that? We googled for the answer. Funny thing was even with best offer options they just bought them all at BIN price, all the way up, and up.

I just looked them up and one of their main buying accounts is still active. Their handle is rather inconspicious, but I do know their feedback # has gone way way up. 7,000 range.

So because I wanted to know...ran known TV buyer through toolhaus, then clicked to get into feedback, then yanked up some recent low feedback sellers, then completed and Wala...
Yes "they" are buying...

And interesting too was the one newbie seller got negged for canceling a 2019 S...big surprise

 

A couple have gone for $1900 tonight (unopened).

 

NGC lets you set minimum grades for bulk submissions, PCGS lets you do it for all submissions though it is the most common on bulk submissions. If you do it on a normal submission you pay for grading whether or not it gets holdered

 

Here is some commentary from a dealer I respect utmost. He is Warren Mills, owner of of Rare Coins of New Hampshire. This commentary appeared in his most recent news letter to me.

"Disappointment upon disappointment abounds with the promotion of the 2019 Reverse Proof Silver Eagle. Once again, dealers show their disregard for customers and do their best to make as much money as possible with no regard for the client’s future. This coin was issued at $65.99. I’ve heard of some of the first issued coins being offered for $15,000! Don’t look at this as a bargain if someone offers you one of these coins for $2,000-$3,000. Remember the promotion for the gold Kennedy ¾ ounce coins? Similar scenario, dealers paid people to stand in line to buy these limited mintage issues. They sold for thousands of dollars and now they are trading close to melt! I know the mintages were different, 30,000 coins for the Silver Eagle and 73,000 for the Gold Kennedy, but always keep in mind who makes the money on these modern low mintage issues, the promotors!"

Warren and his staff, are the good guys.....Reputable and honest, I've dealt with the firm on many occasions and have never been disappointed. The hobby needs more dealers like Warren who truly looks out for his customers.......

 

The Gold Kennedy and this one really aren't comparable at all. Apples and oranges

 

The paid folks standing in line at Baltimore and Chicago is.......

 

That’s about the only similarity. ASEs are vastly more popular than Kennedy’s or modern gold and even among Kennedy collectors many didn’t like the idea of gold. ASE products in general have shown vastly greater staying power than anything like that

 

I have to agree with baseball21 here. They aren't remotely the same scenario. I don't need or want a gold kennedy half unless I want to buy gold and if I do, I'd be buying close to melt or something more rare and collectible with longevity.

Ask Warren Mills to sell you one of the 2019S ERPS for $65.95 +30% markup. $94.32
Guaranteed it's a no, or he doesn't have any to sell even if he wanted to do it, but that would be a higher than "fair" dealer markup.

Nobody is selling it for under $100, or anywhere near it, besides the mint. And if they are writing something like that they don't have one to sell and mad others are making the money and they missed the boat or that new modern issues collectibility vexes them. Not saying they are all out there to rip people off but I'm saying he wouldn't be in business if he left so much money on the table, he'd be out of business.

I'm mad when someone is selling something for crazy markup and that's not the market for it, like etsy, but let's get real here. If someone is selling one for $15000, it's a scam or its a signed one that's proof 70.
If they are selling it for $2k or $3k it's out of my price range but apparently not for enough collectors that want it, to keep it up there like that this long.

According to Warren Mills business website, he doesn't sell any new moderns, he has 1 proof set listed a 1950 and it's graded. It looks like he sells errors/varieties and older coins in better grade and key dates and doesn't even deal in newer coins. He doesn't have silver or modern gold eagles. Biased? Maybe.. ticked that people are asking him all the time for something he doesn't sell? Maybe.

Anyways. Like baseball21 said it's apples to oranges. You can't compare a dual date gold Kennedy that no kennedy half collector really needs for their set to a highly collected and sequentially dated silver eagle of low mintage for that serie's or any series in a long time. The Kennedy gold is more of a commemerative.