Upgrading my Greek coins - seeking advice

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by AussieCollector, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Hi all

    As per my post a few days back, I have completed stage 1 of my ancients collection for both Rome and Greek states.

    What I'd really like to do at this point is identify some options for a gold coin for each. I am in no rush, and am very happy to be patient and get this right.

    I already have a good idea about what I can do on the Roman side, so I have that covered.

    But what I'm seeking is some advice on the Greek side of the collection - a half decent, affordable, Greek gold coin.

    Perhaps I'm just being unrealistic (and please feel free to tell me if I am), but criteria I'm looking at is:

    1. A Greek gold coin from any ancient Greek state/city (I'm not fussed if it's Bactrian, Seleucid, Bosporus, Ptolemaic, Macedonian, or whatever)
    2. A period where the relevant Greek state was still independent (i.e. not a client state of Rome or whatever)
    4. At least 12mm in diameter, and preferably 15mm or more (which rules out El Hekte coins, I already have one and it's just a bit too small)
    4. Less than $1500 USD

    I have been searching the above criteria, but seem to be hitting a wall - hence the question to the good folk at CT.

    Many thanks

    AC
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
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  3. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    You have set yourself a difficult, if not impossible, task. Just to see some possibilities I searched on "gold stater" and some other similar terms at vcoins and saw nothing close and nothing that looked like it would suit even if cheaper. Gold is not the usual metal for Greek city coins so thoughts turn to staters of Alexander and they are not that inexpensive if their condition is as nice as usual. Carthage is perhaps the best possibility (if you consider it to be "Greek"). I therefore recommend you visit some auction consolidators on this page:
    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/dealers.html
    and use their search engines. It is very likely that any $1500 gold coin would be cheaper at auction than fixed-price. I expect you will either have to accept a low condition example or look a very long time without success or change your criteria by deciding you are willing to pay more.
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Perhaps a less than perfect stater of Alexander the Great or Mithradates VI would do??? Both exist in quantity but many are over your price point so you need one that is not mint state.
     
    TIF and AussieCollector like this.
  5. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Thanks @Valentinian and @dougsmit

    To be clear, I'm not after anything close to mint state - just some decent eye appeal. VF is absolutely fine.

    And Doug, you've already given me something that I couldn't find before. A Mithradates VI for $1850 USD - which is by far the closest I have come to meeting my search criteria. Pontus perhaps isn't the first Greek state that springs to mind, but definitely Greek enough for my collection.

    Even better would be a less than perfect stater of Alexander the Great but alas, I have not found any within the price range. Perhaps it might be possible at Auction, but nothing on the online stores I frequent.

    Thanks for the suggestion Valentinian, but no, I don't really consider Carthage to be Greek.
     
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  6. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    I do not think this is such an impossible task, you just need to wait for a coin with the right price/condition ratio. Above 15mm will definitively be a stater, I was thinking about a Philip II 1/4 stater but they are around 10-12mm, however very affordable.

    With a budget of max 1500 USD, I will think of a Philip II, Alexander the Great or Philip III stater of around good fine will do. And as Doug mentioned, a Mithridates VI stater in the name and types of Lysimachos will do as well, in very fine condition.

    I found this Mithridate VI stater sold 1 year ago for 1100 euro (~1220 USD) excluding commission, in AU condition.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Keith Twitchell

    Keith Twitchell Active Member

    Sometimes the gold darics from Persia can be found within your price range, though they too will be a little smaller than you indicated. I would agree that with some patience, an Alexander III or one of his successors can likely be found. Also, keep an eye on some of the Syracusan and other southern Italy city states.
     
    AussieCollector likes this.
  8. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    While there does appear to be some ingrained human gravitation toward gold, at the pricepoint you're seeking, it may be a net-reduction in quality even if some people may think coins made of gold are superior.

    Personally, I'd much rather have a nicely styled silver coin for $1500 than gold where there may be problems (jewelry, scratches, poor style, etc.)
     
  9. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Yea, thanks for this. It would appear it's possible to get a Philip II or Alexander the Great in ok condition, or a Mithridates VI in good condition, at auction for less than $1500 USD. The problem I face is, if it's over $1500 USD, I need to pay an import tax of 10%, so it's quite important that I stay below that mark.

    I am probably inclined for a lesser condition Alexander the Great or Philip II (due to it being the hey day of ancient Greece) over a better condition Mithridates VI.

    But, I do need to be patient.

    Good advice on Syracuse, thank you. I have seen the odd one turn up in searches.

    Whilst I appreciate the logic of this advice, the heart wants what the heart wants :greedy: :jimlad: :woot:
     
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  10. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Good luck! It'll be interesting to see what you find.

    The electrum hekte is about as close as I'm ever likely to come to ancient Greek gold on my budget, but I'm happy with the one I got.
     
    PeteB, AussieCollector and Clavdivs like this.
  11. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    That's a lovely El Hekte you have there. What is the diameter?
     
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  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    9 mm.
     
  13. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Well, it's been a while, but I finally got there.

    Bearing in mind that for me collecting coins is mainly about the history and what they represent, I was ok going for a coin that was drilled, knowing that it would lessen it's perceived value for many others. Fortunately the drilled hole meant this stater was in my price range (just).

    Also, I have just come back from my 'historical pilgrimage' in Greece (which I'll post about at some other stage), and have seen both the Temple of Athena in Delphi and the Temple of Athena Nike in Athens, so this seemed fitting.

    I just won this at auction:

    Alexander III ‘the Great’, 336-323 BC gold stater
    Obverse: head of Athena to right, wearing Corinthian helmet decorated with a serpent.
    Reverse: AΛEΞANΔΡOΥ Nike standing front, head to left, with her wings spread, holding laurel wreath in her right hand and stylis in her left; below left wing, crescent above A
    Mint: Lampsakos
    Diameter: 17 mm
    Weight: 8.60g


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  14. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    If you don't mind a few imperfections, such as some off centering, on Forvm now...

    89446p00.jpg

    Just barely misses the size criteria as it is 11.4mm, but what's half a mm when it ticks the other boxes? Only $1000, but that's because it is a little off center and it has a test cut. If it were perfect it wouldn't meet your price limit.
     
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  15. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Thanks Sallent, but I just secured the coin above :)
     
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  16. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Silly me, I just read your opening post and went straight to Forvm where I remembered seeing that coin. Should have continued to read further down. Congratulations on your golden Greek beauty.
     
    AussieCollector likes this.
  17. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Thanks Sallent :)

    I look forward to having it in hand. It must be quite a thick coin. And I wonder how high the relief will be.
     
  18. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Congratulations—that’s a great coin.
     
  19. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    I think about the only coins that would even come close might be the staters of the Macedonian kings Philip II and Alexander III and their successors. Another solution might be the electrum Carthaginian staters. The only thing is it might be wise to increase your limit a bit so that you can acquire a nicer coin. However if you you can drop your minimum diameter you could get one of the earlier electrum trites or hektes. The earlier coins have a slightly higher gold content than the later examples and so might actually solve two problems your desire for a gold coin as well as getting something very ancient.
    Av Stater of Kassander 300-290 B.C. Sruck in the name and types of Alexander III Amphipolis mint. Price 172 HGC 8.60 grms 19 mmPhoto by W. Hansen alexanderav8.jpg
     
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