Could future coins change in size/composition?

Sorry for the misidentification there. It is "The Future of Money" from September 17, found here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-future-of-money.347031/

Overall, thanks for the discussion. Ludwig von Mises said that advocates for socialism and capitalism usually agree on the facts. What they disagree on is what the facts mean.

Economics classes in college cite three attributes of money: medium of exchange, store of value, and unit of account. I point out that today those are decoupled. As you noted clearly, the dollar is the unit of account in which gold, etc., etc., is priced. Gold is still a better store of value than the dollar.

I have to insist that it is significant that the US Treasury sells gold and silver coins. When the Fine Arts Commission gold coins were created, Secretary of the Treasury W. Michael Blumenthal was against the program. He did not want to endorse gold over dollars. (See Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Arts_Commemorative_Series_medallions

It is a good point and is worth examining. The US also knew both shortages and over-abundances of small change in the 1800s. Silver inflation forced retailers to sell small change at a discount to wholesalers because banks stopped the free exchange of silver for gold. In both cases, the cause was in the faulty ecoomic theory of the issuer of coinage. In the first case, it was the erroneous idea of bimetalism. In the second, it was the fiat inflation of the Federal budget.

That alone was not enough. The run-up caused by the Hunt Brothers was a panic. As such, it was a social event. We can contrast it with many other (failed) mass marketing ideas such as the Million Man March. They come and go and we all know the Tulip Craze from Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay (1841).

I cited Neil Carothers' work, Fractional Currency. I agree that as long as the media are exchangeable, it is not necessary that they be made of precious metals. The problem of wear was not a problem for 2000 years. Then it was.

That is two different points, there. I agree 100% that all money is a matter of some faith. Even Ayn Rand said that. "When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor–your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money." (Francisco's Money Speech from Atlas Shrugged)

On barter, however, allow me to point to Debt: the First 5000 Years by David Graeber. As an anthropologist, Graeber asserts that no society ever went from barter to money. Barter is what people do when money fails. Graeber finds the origins of money, not in trade for economic gain, but in mutual gift exchange. Gift giving led to trade and economic calculation. Even today in a free market transaction, both the "buyer" and "seller" say "Thank you." Otherwise, both parties would chortle, "You idiot!"

 

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Can i take one of your likes back

 

If you change the size, shape or metal content, too many machines would have to be refitted (tolls etc.) for the new coins, so that's not happening.
As for the US Mint losing money on pennies and nickels, if their purpose is to furnish us with coins, why is profit their motive? It's not a private business.
And again, each penny and nickel is used many thousands of times in transactions
so they really aren't losing "money" at all because it's not as if each penny and nickel are designed for 1 time only transaction.
The tiny amount of loss in the manufacture of pennies and nickels is not even one grain of sand compared to the national debt which we will never pay off. The ridiculous cost and interest we have to pay for our paper currency, and the egregious over spending compared to the amount of money our government takes in. If you or I had that same pattern of fiscal irresponsibility we would be sued by the credit card companies and be forced to declare bankruptcy. If this piddling amount caused by the penny and nickel-gate fiasco is such a concern, they can just stop producing these coins as they are unnecessary in day to day commerce.

 

Most of those machines already reject pennies, half dollars, and large dollars.

If they stopped taking or giving nickels and dimes, and made all the prices multiples of 25 cents, few people would object.

 

The "vending machine lobby" has always been a strong influence on coin sizes and metals.

However, their days are numbered. I'd argue that a large percentage of people who use toll booths regularly already have the electronic pay method set up. And many vending machines now accept credit cards.

The importance of this argument is quickly becoming outdated.

 

I think the penny and maybe the nickel will be eliminated because of the production is exceeding face value, most of those that want these or both eliminated may not have figured out that the dime, quarter, half dollar, and the dollar which the mint makes profit from, covers the lost (of money) in cents and nickels.

 

I hope they change the shield before they kill the cent. Who Agrees ?

 

I do, I hope they reproduce every small cent design like the state and atb quarter series.

 

I remember when i was younger. If i had a nickel. My friends and i had a days worth of candy

 

Bravo. And put in god we trust on both sides

 

What would you like to change the shield to? My preference is a big duck.

 

Not every place in the country is a metropolitan area with the newest technology. This is a large country and there are a tremendous number of rural areas which are many years behind in technology, and there is an abundance of coin operated vending machines, parking meters, arcades, tolls that will be in use for 20+ more years.
It's not a coincidence that there are millions of Coin Stars in every single store in the country.

 

True.

 

Oh we know, but if you have a product that you are losing $100 on and another you are making $200 on overall you are in the black and making $100. But if you get rid of the first item you are still in the black and you are making $200.

Yes, the larger coins do make up for the tens of millions of dollars we are losing on the cents and five cents, but if they stopped making them their net would increase by tens of millions of dollars.