Morgans from Thailand (real or fake)

Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb:

I just ran across a seller with several Morgans for sale and the seller is located in Thailand. I'm not 100% sure about authenticity so I figured I'd post them here for discussion and since the auctions are about to close, I'm going to list each one individually so they will be available for viewing later.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1878-S-1878-S...4587371QQihZ025QQcategoryZ39465QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1879-Silver-M...4579650QQihZ025QQcategoryZ39465QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1883-Silver-M...4581554QQihZ025QQcategoryZ39465QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1883-O-1883-S...4589794QQihZ025QQcategoryZ39465QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1885-Silver-M...578597QQihZ025QQcategoryZ139811QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1885-O-1885-S...589181QQihZ025QQcategoryZ139811QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1885-O-1885-S...588350QQihZ025QQcategoryZ139811QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1889-Silver-M...590399QQihZ025QQcategoryZ139811QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1890-O-1890-S...585359QQihZ025QQcategoryZ139811QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1896-Silver-M...591534QQihZ025QQcategoryZ139811QQcmdZViewItem

I've also noticed an influx of 1889-CC's lately and some of them are questionable (IMO).

Ribbit

 

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I'm just guessing here but they certainly have that cast look to them , I'd definately stay away from them .
rzage

 

Those are definitely fake, they have no mint bloom whatsoever. They are not struck, but cast. The sellers name should be a clue too.

These are much better copies than we see typically coming out of China though.

It seems as though they cleaned the surface of some of these coins perhaps on a very fine buffing wheel to make the surfaces more authentic.

 

Toad it looks like you think something is up too , or else you wouldn't have posted them . I've never seen Morgans in that condition with that dead look to them , but its OMO
rzage

 

Here are three 1889-CC's that are also currently selling on Ebay (same seller but not from Thailand) and there's something about the denticles on the last one that doesn't seem right:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Coins_Coins__...s=72:12|39:1|65:12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Coins_Coins__...s=72:12|39:1|65:12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Coins_Coins__...s=72:12|39:1|65:12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308

Ribbit

 

if those are fake they did a really good job

 

they look too similar to each other.

 

Its a nice place to visit but i dont know if i would buy my morgans from there though De orc and i buy some of our notes from Thailand

 

Hi, i went through the first seven pages of the seller's feedback. There were not any coins that i noticed. Buying coins from a watch & amp seller probably is'nt a good idea. The glow in the dark compass/ watch combo looks pretty cool though! I wonder if the morgans glow in the dark?

 

I have bought notes from there too. That one seller that has lots and lots of stuff.

 

The Thailand ones are better fakes than some coming out of China, but they've obviously been "treated" somehow to make them look better. I've never seen that many Morgans look exactly the same to each other. The 1889 CC's just look so wrong, I feel for the people that paid thousands of dollars for them. Even if they looked better, those pictures were so bad to be placing bids of that amount on those coins, the bidder must have had 2 grand just burning a hole in their pocket that they just had to spend.

 

I see no evidence of any of these coins being counterfeit, but neither am I an expert in this series or counterfeiting.

For those who think they are counterfeit, what, specifically, leads you to hold such an opinion?....Mike

 

Distinct lack of any mint lustre from striking, there are not even any real metal flow patterns on these. With larger sized coins, you will see metal flow patterns from the striking process. These coins look flat and dull. As such, they are very well done apparently cast counterfeits. These are much better quality than the junk coming out of China, these would fool a lot of people.

 

Couldn't cleaning or burnishing or even the photographic method (i.e. scanning) cause such an appearance? To wit, I see no evidence of casting -- I'd expect to see a loss of detail and/or incuse casting marks -- and thus my question...Mike

 

That is why they are so good. And frankly a lot of the fakes from China are not cast, but struck in machine presses.

 

With all due respect, you didn't answer my question, which is why I am skeptical of your response. Lack of luster and flowlines is not necessarily indicitative of countefeiting -- and I have provided three alternative explanations including the one I suspect is key, that the photo is a scan which doesn't show these features -- thus I suspect you're jumping to conclusions. However, I'm not as sure as you seem to be and thus the push-back. Respectfully...Mike

 

By way of example, where are the luster and flowlines in this photo?



BTW, this coin is almost certainly real, and resides in an NGC 64 slab.

The point being that photographic method can radically change the way a coin looks and we shouldn't be so quick to judge based on a photo.

Respectfully submitted...Mike

 

Mike, my initial impression from the first few links I clicked on was that they were genuine. As I viewed more, however, I was struck by how they appeared too similar, especially considering the (different) dates involved. It might just be the lighting/imaging, but count me as suspicious, though not convinced that they are bogus.

 

Looks like a B&W photo.


BTW.... I only looked at a couple of the Thai Morgies.
They looked ok, but I would still be cautious.
There were a couple of marks that were iffy, but nothing distinct.

 

Yes.