Syracuse coin Queen Philistis - thoughts please

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by PaddyB, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. PaddyB

    PaddyB Eccentric enthusiast

    I was brought this coin at the market today, unidentified and from an old family collection (allegedly). I have managed to work out it is from Syracuse and features Queen Philistis, presumed wife of Hiero II and so dates between 270 and 215 BC. It weighs 13.57g and measures about 26mm across at the longest. There is no sign of a seam around the edge or any other indication I can see to suggest it is a copy.
    Questions:
    Does anyone see any indication it might be a copy, or know if these are appearing amongst the fakes?
    What sort of value should I tell the owner?
    Thanks for any help you can give.
    Greek a-horz.jpg
     
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I don't see any matches in FAC's database and the weight and style look right when compared to examples in ACsearch. Looks good to me (<-- not an expert; opinion is worth the price paid). Nice toning too :).

    Value? I guess that depends on whether you mean what a dealer would pay for it vs "retail" store vs selling to an individual vs auction. Perhaps ~$600-2K US?
     
  4. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    PaddyB, The example pictured below sold at Roma's Auction a few weeks ago for 2,200 British pounds, photo courtesy of Roma Numismatics Limited. The obverse of the coin below is superior to yours, but the reverse on your coin is far superior.

    [​IMG]
    14.05 gm, 27 mm, 10 h.
     
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  5. Brian Bucklan

    Brian Bucklan Well-Known Member

    I am not going to judge the coin but here's some close ups of areas of the coin.

    1. Coin edge at lower right of obverse:

    Coin Edge.jpg

    2. Reverse text showing dots at edges of letters:

    Coin Text.jpg
    Just note that I am always skeptical when it comes to coins like this. I judge them guilty until proven innocent.
     
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  6. PaddyB

    PaddyB Eccentric enthusiast

    Wow! Thank you all for your information. I will wait a few days to see if anyone else has any thoughts before relaying back to the owner.
    Thank you @Brian Bucklan for drawing my attention to that area of the rim. Closer examination suggests an area of flaked off metal around there - but I don't know if this is a good or bad sign.
    Are the "dots at edges of letters" indicative of anything in particular?
     
  7. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..its a wowzer if authentic...:)
     
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  9. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That's a lovely coin, with wonderful toning. I can't comment on its authenticity. I have only one of this queen, a different and smaller denomination than the OP coin.

    [​IMG]
    Philistis, wife of Hieron II.
    Greek AR 5 litrae.
    Syracuse 270-230 BCE, 4.46 gm, 18.1 mm.
    Obv: Diademed and veiled head, l., palm branch behind.
    Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΑΣ ΦΙΛΙΣΤΙΔΟΣ, Nike driving biga to left, E in l. field.
    Refs: SNG ANS 893; SNG III (Lockett) 1017; Forrer 196.
     
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  10. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    It does have a thin flan crack and minor die shift (see the ghost letters around the bold letters someone posted above), the die used for Philistis was worn. The symbols on the reverse/obverse are actually barley ears but these are not well struck in your example (which is a minus). There are some faint scratches overall. If you want to compare prices better look for similar ones. e.g. this one https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4115804

    4115804.jpg

    Have a look in acsearch maybe you'll even find your coin there!

    I don't dare to spell out a value. Latest auctions (online and floor) are lotteries and not auctions IMHO.
     
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  11. PaddyB

    PaddyB Eccentric enthusiast

    That is great - thank you all for your input.
    I do not have a premium membership for ACsearch, and I would not use it often enough to make it worth buying. Could someone tell me what the estimate and hammer prices were for the example linked above? That will give me some idea to pass to the owner.
    Thank you,
     
  12. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    Check the sixbid archive it's free and I hope it stays that way
    https://www.sixbid-coin-archive.com/#/en/search?text=philistis tetradrachm&sort=price_desc

    the specific coin I posted:
    https://www.cgb.fr/sicile-syracuse-seize-litrai-spl,bgr_431978,a.html
     
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  13. PaddyB

    PaddyB Eccentric enthusiast

    Great - thanks - that gives me a good idea. As you say the prices do seem to vary a lot!
     
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