I have often wondered about the Roman coin we call a "dupondius". it was supposed to be from the metal we call brass, while they called it something like "orichalchum". When we think of brass, we envision a metal with a somewhat yellowish caste to it. But from my collecting experience, that does not quite seem an accurate description of ancient brass, at least as it has come down to us as brass coinage. The larger sestertius and even a few smaller coins like some of the quadranes were also sometimes described as brass but it is with the dupondius that I most notice the differences. Some of the differences, over time, may have been caused by environmental factors such as the soil conditions in which the coins were deposited in different soils and water percolation factors. Some of the differences may have been from varying percentages of zinc. I understand that lead tended to replace zinc in the mid to late Second Century AD and that may explain why this dupondius of Marcus Aurelius comes up almost as black. But even when issued at about the same time, the two dupondii of Nero pictured here, come out very differently, one a bright brass and the other a dark green. By the way, my avatar, a dupondius of Trajan comes off as a medium green. The dupondius of Hadrian appears as a medium dark brown with some "brassy " highlights. Perhaps when first coined they all had that brassy appearance, but I wonder about that. So what I am asking readers here to do is post different dupondii of various time periods so that we may see what different hues the dupondius might take, and speculate on what might have caused them and if the differences are explained by any rhyme or reason . We might as well include sesterces as well as they are described as "Aes" which frequently gets translated as brass. By the way, notice the symbol that looks like the Greek letter for Pi on the reverse indicating the value of the coin, that is, two asses.
Interesting line of inquiry, Kevin. I cannot add any solid information, but here are a couple of my coins: This Antoninus Pius dupondius has a nice warm "brassy" look to it. Not sure what the original color was, but I don't think this one has a patina per se - more like toning: A while back I posted two harshly cleaned uglies from my collection - a brassy sestertius of Antoninus Pius and a coppery as of Faustina I. I thought they did a pretty good job of showing the brass/copper difference from that era (despite my photo's over-exposure - sorry): Here is a Septimius Severus dupondius and an Elagabalus as. By the Severans, metal content was getting pretty sloppy, so I've heard. That the as is bigger and heavier than the dupondius adds to the sense of Roman mint disarray - and yet I think there is a brassier color to the dupondius: Here is a hard-used Trajan dupondius - not nearly as nice as Kevin's avatar. in the high point areas, where the crud has been worn away or cleaned away, looks like brass.
Here is an interesting link on Orichalcum: http://numismatics.org/digitallibrary/ark:/53695/nnan11063
Now that is interesting and about as much as any person would want to know about that alloy. My father was a metallurgist and if he were still with us he could probably tell us all some more. Thanks for posting that link.
There are a lot of niche facebook groups... Maybe find one of metallurgists and ask them? Maybe they could attest! Here is one which seems to be for the blend of the knowledgeable and the unknowledgeable. https://www.facebook.com/groups/305916386098253/?ref=br_rs
Interesting thread. Too bad elemental testing is a bit expensive, or else it would be fun to have an entire collection tested.
Interesting line of thought and study! I'm curious to see where this goes and seeing everyone's dupondii! Here are mine for inclusion... Nero, AE Dupondius Struck 62-68 AD, Lugdunum (Lyon) Mint Obverse: NERO CLAVD CAESAR AVG GER P M TR P IMP P, Head of Nero, laureate, left; small globe at point of neck. Reverse: VICTORIA AVGVSTI, Victory walking left, holding wreath in right hand and palm in left, S-C in fields, II in exergue. References: RIC I 410; Lyon 81; BMCRE 350; Cohen 346 Size: 29mm, 14.84g Domitian, Ruled 81-96 AD AE Dupondius, Struck 87 AD, Rome Mint Obverse: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM COS XIII CENS PER P P, Head of Domitian, radiate, right. Reverse: VIRTVTI AVGVSTI, Virtus standing right, resting foot on helmet, holding spear and parazonium, S-C across field. References: RIC II 540 Hadrian, AE Dupondius Struck 125-128 AD, Rome mint Obverse: HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS, Bust of Hadrian, radiate, draped on left shoulder, right. Reverse: COS, Pegasus running right, SC/III in exergue. References: RIC II 658j Size: 28mm, 13.0g Lucius Verus, Ruled 161-169 AD AE Dupondius, Struck 163-164 AD, Rome Obverse: L AVREL VERVS AVG ARMENIACVS; Radiate, cuirassed bust right. Reverse: TR P IIII IMP II COS II; Mars, helmeted, in military dress, standing right, holding spear in right hand and leaning left arm on shield on ground. References: RIC III (M. Aurelius) 1388/1387, BMC 1123 Size: 27mm, 11.17g Marcus Aurelius, Ruled 161-180 AD AE Dupondius, Struck 170-171 AD, Rome Obverse: M ANTONINVS AVG TR P XXV, Head of Marcus Aurelius, radiate, right. Reverse: IMP VI COS III, Victory, winged, naked to waist, standing front, head right, setting on palm-tree right, shield inscribed VIC GER; S-C across fields. References: RIC III 1002 Marcus Aurelius, Ruled 161-180 AD AE Dupondius, Struck 170-171 AD, Rome Obverse: IMP M ANTONINVS AVG TR P XXV; Radiate head right. Reverse: COS III; Mars, helmeted, naked except for cloak flying behind, advancing right, holding spear in right hand and trophy over left shoulder in left hand. References: RIC III (M. Aurelius) 994, Cohen 129 Size: 24mm, 14.03g Commodus, AE Dupondius Struck 183-184 AD, Rome mint Obverse: M COMMODVS ANTONINVS AVG PIVS, Head of Commodus, radiate, right. Reverse: TR P VIIII IMP VI COS IIII P P, Minerva, helmeted, draped, advancing right, brandishing javelin in right hand and holding shield in left hand, S-C across field. References: RIC III 421a Size: 25mm, 8.3g Severus Alexander, AE Dupondius Struck 224 AD, Rome mint Obverse: IMP CAES M AVR SEV ALEXANDER AVG, Bust of Severus Alexander, radiate, draped, right. Reverse: PONTIF MAX TR P III COS P P, Severus Alexander, in military attire, standing left, holding globe in right hand and inverted spear in left hand, S-C in field. References: RIC IV 420h Size: 25mm, 8.3g
I am going to ask the same question I would have asked had I been a Roman shop keeper. Is this an as or a dupondius or a sestertius?
Judging ~2000 year old metal by color requires a lot of allowance for what happens when any copper alloy spends all that time exposed to a variety of 'experiences'. The yellow ones we have today could be naturally toned but most have been cleaned sometime in the past 500 years and exposed to a second generation of different 'experiences'. Roman shopkeepers would have had it easier. Below are a few of my yellow coins showing a variety of tones. Antonia dupondius Nero sestertius Vespasian dupondius Domitian dupondius Commodus sestertius Julia Domna sestertius Julia Maesa sestertius
Cool. I like Orichalcum... RI Augustus oak crown Agrippa rostral crown L AE Dupondius 26mm 12.6g 10-14CE Nemausus chained Croc snake wreaths RIC I 158 RI ANTONIA Minor AVGVSTA d-Marc Antony w-Nero Claudius Drusus AE Dupondius 28mm 11.8g togate holding simpulum S-C RI Vespasian 69-79 CE AE Dupondius Felicitas stdg caduceus cornucopia sinister left RI Nerva AE Dupondius 96-98 CE LIBERTAS PVBLICA -pileus TIF
I agree that it is more than anyone needs to know other than a student completing a doctoral dissertation.
I think the current color or patina of most of these dupondii is more dependent on the soil or medium in which they have been buried. Notice the similar dupondii of Vespasian with vastly different colors. I think if one were to strip the patinas of all these coins, they would then appear more homogeneous.
Dupondius of Vespasian Sestertius of Hadrian The topic thread highlights the dupondius, but it may be worth mentioning that brass was first used for coinage by Mithradates VI of Pontos, one of Rome's implacable enemies. You can see the yellow of the metal below the patina and encrustations of the circa 105-85 BC AE28 "Headless Medusa" type below.
As we can see from unpatinated specimens, Dupondii and Sestertii were struck in yellow orichalcum until the reign of Antoninus Pius and again from late in the reign of Septimius Severus until Elagabalus. Marcus Aurelius, Commodus and the Emperors of 193a.D. struck these denominations in reddish copper, just like Severus Alexander and the soldier Emperors, probably due to a lack of zinc.
What a terrific and impressive set of third century sestertii you have! But that sestertius of Decius is just so hauntingly beautiful.
