Is there a sure fire way to tell if someone tampers with a slab? What happenes to the hollogram on the back if someone tries to open the slab? Thanks, Jim
First...look for the obvious!! Cracks and severe scratches are sure fire ways of tampering. Also, the hollogram is located IN the slab, so the only way to get to it is by cracking in out.
Thanks Ed, I just finished reading Scott Travers 10 Greatests Myths of Slabbed Coins, and in his article he mentioned that folks have become very good at cracking slabs. I was wondering if they could crack out an MS65 coin and replace it with a MS62 or MS63 coin without a new collector noticing. In most cases, it is very hard for me to tell the difference in a MS63 and MS65. I use Photograde to help me out on my coin purchases. Will a slab that has been cracked open always show it in some way? Will they always show scratches or some damage? We even had someone on this website giving instructions on how to crack open a slab. Thanks again, Jim
First, Photograde is good for circulated coins, but MS coins are another issue. You have to look at strikes, ticks, nicks, bag marks, and of course, luster. For instance, strikes during the 1920's were relatively poor when it came to Lincoln Cents and what would constitute a MS grade during the 20's may not make the grade for other years. Also, there is the color issue as "barely noticable blemishes" are never the same from one person to the other. Matter of fact, everytime I think a coin is MS64, the seller thinks it is MS65 and when I think it is MS65, the buyer thinks it is MS64. What I suggest is that you eventually acquire the same coin, same mint mark from the top graders in the same grade so that you have any idea what really is a MS____ versus a MS _____. Use that as a comparison until you get comfortable with your own grading skills. You will always learn here and elsewhere...LEARN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN! Also, slabbing technology (especially for the top four of PCGS, NGC, ICG and ANACS) has really improved over the years. I hear of stories when PCGS first started out where the coins would rattle in the slab and in some cases, the slabs would fall apart! Slabs are today, mainly sonically sealed and some are air and water tight. (Though, I wouldn't start dunking coins in buckets of water). With that said, I guess "surgury" can be done on slabs to remove and replace coins and that is why you always hear at these forums to buy the coin FIRST and never the slab. But since, many transactions are being done "sight-unseen" with auctions houses, first check the seller's return policy and feedback. For instance, I took a shot at a PCI MS67RD Lincoln the other day and when I got it, with all of the ticks, nicks and blemishes, it was more a MS64RB, I promptly sent it back. The seller wasn't happy and even stated to me that I should have KNOWN that PCI slabs are 2 points or more over graded and I should have known what I was buying...but I still returned it. Also, if you return anthing, make sure you have delivery confirmation from the Post Office. It costs you an additional 55 cents for parcels, but it is will worth it so you don't get into arguments whether they received the coin or not. Matter of fact, I ALWAYS use delivery confirmation for all coins I sell on ebay so that a buyer doesn't play games with me. It really is easy to break out slabs. I use two pliers and elbow grease. But to break out a coin without disturbing the plastic is a differant matter. Anybody can break out a coin in slab, but to break it out without showing evidence that the slab was tampered with is almost impossible...but then again, someone out there is thinking of exactly how to do just that. And WATCH out for the counterfeit slabs coming from China.
I don't think I've ever seen a slab that had the coin switched...at least not successfully. They're easy enough to crack open but it's really hard to do without totally wrecking the slab. Anyone got a slab that's been tampered with that ISN'T obvious? I'd be interested in seeing it. Nick
There was a guy who advertised coins on ebay that he "had broken out" of their slabs. He still had the broken slabs and would provide them as proof of the grade and such. He had quite a few Indian Head Cents advertised. I haven't seen his stuff in a while.
To the best of my knowledge there has never been a case of a coin being removed from a NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG slab, another coin inserted into the same slab - and successfully sold. The way the slabs are made - if they are ever opened it is plainly obvious that they have been. So far at least, they are considered to be tamperproof. Now there are some slabs on the market issued by 3rd tier grading companies where it would be possible to remove a coin and replace it. This is just another reason to not buy coins in those slabs unless you can judge the coin itself by yourself.
about the counterfiet slabbed being produced recently from China. Has anyone seen one or acquired one? Can these counterfieted slabbed really fool most collectors? Please help a concern coin collector. Thanks!!
Sarawakian From the ones I've seen it wouldn't fool a collector that has seen a real one before...the ones I've seen don't look like the real slabs in any way.... Speedy
oh ok, thanks!! I am starting to look at my slabbed coins and thinking everything could be fake now. Gosh, cann't trust anything nowaday..lol
Got to be honest, I never understood this practice. I am sure Del Conf has its place, but for merchandise, why not just send it insured? For 55 cents you can prove that it was placed in the person's mailbox, but for 85 cents or a little more you can recover the value if it is lost or damaged. Couldn't a buyer say that he received your package but that it was emtpy? Or, if it is damaged in the mail, he got it, as proven by the confirmation, but it is still damaged.
More often than not, if someone claims their package didn't arrive, providing them with the tracking information will change their story. Happens all the time. Buyer claims non delivery but when I provide tracking number and delivery time, etc...suddenly they "found" the package. We print our own labels electronically with Endicia.com. DC is free on priority packages, and .13 cents on others. IMO it would be foolish for us not to use DC. Insurance serves its purpose if a piece of glass is broken, or other type item damaged, but for lost packages of coins the post office gets REALLY difficult to deal with.
Don't doubt your comments one bit Nick - but sometimes the packages just don't arrive. I recently made this post on the World Coins Forum -
Agreed: the Post Office is not infallible, is sometimes enigmatic. Long time ago, my mother mailed me a shirt which she had embroidered with exquisite care. Never showed up, mother was heart-broken, I eventually received the insurance check.. About six months after receiving the check (which perhaps was three months after the original mailing), the shirt showed up in my mail. I have no idea where it had sat for so long. While in Canada, I have had to wait up to ten weeks for mail from the States. Other than being slow anyway, it's often held up by Canadian Customs. Much more recently, I have anxiety attacks when incoming coins are late, especially if the sender hasn't insured them and/or added Delivery Confirmation (I ALWAYS pay for insurance and add extra for Delivery Confirmation so items can be tracked, but too many sellers seem to have brain disconnects at the Post Office; I always send them out insured [over $50] and with DelCon whether or not the buyer has paid for these services). I would estimate that incoming coins are overdue by one to seven days about fifty percent of the time; there are some real problems with the Postal Service... but maybe this is another thread.
To tell ya the truth - I think it's the claim being filed that makes them go look for the items. I think THAT'S why they show up after so long a time period.
