Why isn't a coin that has been cleaned not simply regarded as PMD and then graded accordingly? It seems like the grading companies go out of their way to specifically point out a coin has been cleaned vs any other type of PMD AND they simply don't give it a grade. I mean, a coin could have been in someone's pocket in the washing machine or something, who knows, but because it was "cleaned" they treat it like the "Scarlett Letter".
Some TPGS used to put a grade on details coins. I had a ANACS XF45 Details Cleaned. Most now will only list the category such as AU Details etc... It is kind of a copout IMO. The bodybagged/ungradeable coins get even less information often.
TPGS do sort of give it a grade. Is the MS / AU / XF .... details not meeting your requirements? https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/details-grading/ I mean, they cant really give it a number grade, as every collector has their own idea of what amount of grades they would subtract for the PMD / harshly cleaned coins. Meaning, some people wouldnt touch a harshly cleaned coined with ten-foot pole, another person might be -10 grades/points, but another person might only subject 1 or 2 points. This is "net grading". People dont even agree with each other or TPG when it comes to fully original coins with no problems, so even attempting to put a hard numbered net grade seems like an act of futility to me. By not giving it a numerical grade, it all is like a warning sign flashing, you look at the specifics of why it was slabbed without a numeric grade, you might check over the coin surfaces with more care, etc. If they put "MS62 details" on a harshly cleaned but otherwise MS64 Morgan, dont you think people would be tricking/fooling people with their auctions of a "great MS62 Morgan, really old, amazingly rare". The lazy person, or the uneducated person, might just see the 62 and assume its a straight grade. TPG avoid a lot of problems by simply not giving these problem coins a numeric grade. For me, the system for PMD / cleaned coins is working as intended with the current accepted practices by PCGS & NGC. There are a lot of things that need fixing in this hobby, I personally don't think this is one of them.
The scammers simply crack out the details slab, and sell it raw. Which is worse than a graded details coin. Sometimes even AT over the problem areas.. AU/ MS Details is better than no grade at all.
Yes, that is what the TPGs currently do, and that is what i said. "AU details" "MS details" "XF details" etc. The OP was implying he wanted a numeric grade. e.g. "AU53 details". That is not currently done, and I think that is a wise decision on the TPGs part. Anyone can crack out a coin for any reason. That is always a problem and a solution. Some people do it to put coins into a nice album, some do it to deceive, some do it to play the crack-out-and-upgrade game. The point is, the TPG cannot know the motivations of the submitter, and PCGS & NGC should continue to grade the problem coins as they have been doing for awhile now. Do you really think a coin coming back as "MS62 details" would lower the number of issues coin collectors face?! I dont think so. To me, people would just have one new avenue to deceive people.
ANACS still grades cleaned coins, former jewelry, etc., and puts it on the label. I have a $2,50 gold piece that was labeled "former jewelry" and a seated half that says "cleaned". Both were graded AU 53. I can't speak for NGC or PCGS as I do not use them. You would all know better than me.
I could also imagine the uproar amongst the community if the TPG's started to play a guessing game. "Details-chemical stain" What type of chemical? Or "Details-urine stain". What type of urine? Dog, cat, elephant? Would they need to do a DNA test to be sure? Cleaned and former jewelry are pretty clear cut. Even PMD opens up hundreds of possibilities.
But doesn't PCGS put a number grade on coins that have PMD? Like coin rolling machine scratched coins or ones that have smashed portions or even pieces missing? I mean, there's even lamination errors that make it difficult to even see what kind of coin it is, don't all those get a numerical grade too?
