Didius Julianus sestertius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by dougsmit, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This sestertius came to me 45 years after I sold my last coin of Didius Julianus. My first was pushing a point to be called VG but was smoothly worn. This is better for wear but has rough surfaces with thick patina not helped by having been polished. Of course I do not know what it looked like before. The problem with surface treatments is that they can be used to hide signs of a fake. I bought it from an honest dealer known for many years but I am not sure just how many sestertii of Didius he handles so there is always concern when buying a coin so often faked. On these it is rather like a coin is guilty until proven innocent. The coin is also compromised by an uneven strike weakening detail on the portrait neck and the head of Fortuna.

    TIF was so kind as to find a die duplicate (bottom) online sufficiently different that it did not mother my coin (top). This reverse favors the legend split SE--VER while most of his sestertii used SEV-ER. Significance? I do not know.
    [​IMG]

    I failed to find anything similar in the fake resources checked and would appreciate word if anyone does find something of note including any previous sales of this specimen.
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I'm told that the image sent to me by a private conversation can not be seen by others. This is the coin alone. You'll have to take our word for there being a die duplicate.
    rd0042fd3304.jpg
     
  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    You can't share images sent by PM by using the image URL-- you have to save it to your computer and upload the image to your thread. Here's the picture:

    CT-DougDidius-Baldwins.jpg

    I didn't realize the image couldn't be seen by others because I can see it in your OP. Interesting!
     
  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Thank you, @TIF for posting that die-matched coin, because it provides additional detail about the coin's devices relative to the lettering in the inscriptions. It should be possible to identify which dies were used to strike @dougsmit 's coin. Woodward's article* is still considered the definitive work on this, though it's unfortunate that not all dies described are illustrated in the plates and there are a few that he was unaware of when he wrote the article. Woodward often refers to coins in the British Museum Collection, which are searchable. Between the illustrations, descriptions, and the BMCRE references, it should be possible to identify the die pairs with which Doug's coin was struck.

    Let me work on this a little more this morning.

    *Woodward, "The Coinage of Didius Julianus and His Family." Num Chron. 121:71, 1961.
     
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  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Here's the link to the die-matched coin shown above, the only match I found in ACsearch:

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=246532

    It is possible there are more in ACsearch. Sometimes I miss coins because of different spellings or other variations in search terms.
     
  7. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Looking at the reverses on the four examples in the British Museum collection, Doug's coin matches none of them. This rules out Woodward reverse dies A, D, N, and O. Looking at plate VII, nn. 6, 7, and 8 in Woodward, this rules out reverse dies C, H, and N.

    This leaves B, E, F, G, K, L, M, and P as possibilities.

    You can rule out B (rudder "more upright"; "S C very low down") and F (R above Fortuna's forehead; very small O) by Woodward's description. Same with K (Small globe under rudder; M level with fore-arm; short, broad tail of drapery) and L (Small letters, R above back of head; smallish cornucopiae, rudder with cross-piece on handle.) Also P (Head between R and P; S of S C between rudder and drapery of figure).

    This leaves E, G, and M. Were the top of the reverse legend clear on either of the coins illustrated by @dougsmit and @TIF , I could identify it with certainty. I'm inclined, though, to call it reverse die E because Woodward specifically notes "C at higher level than S in field" in his description of this die. He cites Hirsch xii (Munich, 1904), 592 = (Egger xliii ( Vienna, 1913), 1319).
     
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  8. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    There are over 100 specimen of this RIC 15 sestertius on acsearch...
    Does someone have the « image search engine » from this site ??
     
  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I looked at each the old fashioned way. Image search wouldn't have been a help for the one match I found because the auction house images were so dark that details could not be seen. I had to edit the images in photoshop before I could even begin to assess for a match!

    It might be an interesting test though. I might waste some of my search credits on this. If so, I'll report the results.
     
  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Woodward notes that E was found only with obverse die 8 in his study. Obverse die 8 is described as, "IMP CAES M DID.SEV ER IVLIAN AVG, Merzbacher (Munich,
    Nov. 1909), 1764 = (Vierordt (Schulman, 1923), 1787), (Fortuna, die B); also dies C, D, E, K, M. This obverse die does not appear on any of the British Museum specimens. This is not your coin's obverse. Your coin has a break in the obverse legend as SE VER with a dot after the R. Yours also has a dot after the D in DID and after the N in Julian.

    This would make it obverse die 5, described by Woodward as, "IMP CAES M DID. SE VER. IVLIAN.AVG, Bachofen v. Echt (Vienna, 1903) 1567 (Fortuna, die G); also dies H and P.

    While it could be that your coin is a die-pair combo unrecorded by Woodward, this suggests that your coin has reverse die G (which I couldn't rule out in my previous post). Die G is described in VERY vague terms: "(R above top of head, no stops.) Hall (Glendining, 1950), 1659; Bachofen v. Echt (Vienna, 1903), 1567; Copenhagen; The Hague (no. 5922).

    Your coin sounds like it might well be a double die-match with the Bachofen v. Echt specimen. Good luck finding a photo of it online, though.
     
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  11. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    When searching in acsearchinfo, the key features of @dougsmit 's dies to look for are:

    - the breaks and dots in the obverse legend: IMP CAES M DID. SE VER. IVLIAN.AVG

    and

    - the position of the handle of the rudder relative to the S in S C and the P (between S and P), as well as the position of the S in COS relative to the C in SC (S slightly above the C), and that the C is higher in the field than the S in S C on the reverse.
     
  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

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  13. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    The reverse is not a match-- below the cornucopia, look at the distance between her body and the drapery. I'm working on an overlay of the obverse right now. It's hard to say but I'll tweak it a bit.
     
  14. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Yes, the reverse on the Wildwinds coin is Woodward die H, not Doug's. I was wondering about the obverse.

    This is reverse die H from Woodward:

    Capture.JPG
     
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  15. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    The obverse looks very similar and almost lines up, but look at the bow formed by his laurel wreath ties. They are shaped differently and clustered differently. I don't think it's an obverse match either.

    Both sides are very similar though. Perhaps parts of the dies were re-engraved as the original wore out??
     
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  16. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    The Wildwinds coin is probably obverse die 4, then, as on BMCRE 27:

    00671307_001_l.jpg

    Tricky stuff, isn't it?
     
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  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This is altogether over my head. I can't look into it today since we are working the Pumpkin Patch fundraiser at church but soon, I hope. What is the obverse die of the RIC plate coin?
     
  18. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    These are the two sestertii of Didius Julianus in the RIC plates. It's clear that Plate III, no. 8 is the British Museum specimen I've shown above:

    Capture.JPG
     
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  19. bcuda

    bcuda El Ibérico loco

    Nice addition to your collection Doug ! It brings back good and bad memories for me. I had a sestertius of both Didius Julianus and Pertinax and had to sell them both years ago. The Didius was found by me metal detecting and the Pertinax I traded for from my friend that found it also metal detecting. I wish I could go back in time and change it. :banghead:
     
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