Oddball 1884 Morgan - fake or ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by dividebytube, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. dividebytube

    dividebytube Active Member

    Approximately six years ago I started buying Morgans. Not being very educated with the coin at the time, my collection of ~27 of them range from Fine to AU, maybe with a few hitting BU. Last night I went through them again and this 1884 P really threw me off (see images below) since it looks completely different than any other Morgan in tone and wear.

    The scuffs/wear reveal dark material underneath. The sheen of the silver is also off, looking very "cheap" like an inexpensive token. Hard to catch with my smart phone but I tried my best - and apologies for the slightly blurry reverse.

    So counterfeit or just really strange toning and/or cleaning?

    1884_front.jpg 1884_back.jpg
     
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  3. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    Can you post clear, cropped pics looking directly/straight at the coin ? Both sides, and edge.
     
  4. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    It sure does look like some base metal is exposed. I would first see if a magnet was attracted to the old dollar.
     
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  5. dividebytube

    dividebytube Active Member

    I will when I get home - angle was needed to get some good light on it last night (my house is kind of dark).
     
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  6. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Weigh it on an accurate scale. A Morgan should weigh 26.73 gms. A base metal copy will have a different weight.

    EDIT to add: It looks dodgy to me. Like plated base metal as others have suggested
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  7. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    My first thoughts also, but sometimes the lighting can make scuffs appear dark like in the pics. Only want to be sure.
    Weight, and magnet test will normally immediately give the answer to authenticity on some of the older fakes, but not always on the newer ones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  8. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Looks counterfeit, but it isn't a modern Chinese knock-off.
     
  9. GenX Enthusiast

    GenX Enthusiast Forensic grammatician

    Maybe been painted?
     
  10. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I can't say from those pictures alone that it's fake, but I can say that it's absolutely trashed. I have seen genuine coins with that appearance in the past. The cleaning always seems to be in the form of vertical hairlines imparted with the delicate touch one would expect from a bench grinder.
     
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  11. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Either counterfeit or plated and peeling. Welcome to CT.
     
  12. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    This specimen has been plated most probably silver plated.
    Notice how on her cheeks the hits seem to peel also the hair high spots.
    When you plate something say brass with gold or silver plate the surface of the item to be plated must be perfectly clean! If not even when the charge is on the plating won't flow over the area that has a foreign substance. Oil, oil from a finger print, dried polish not completely wiped clean from the medal.
    Anything else that would impead the silver to flow evenly over the surface.
    Then once the weakest spot gives way...it begins to peel around the spot.
    If this is a real Morgan it has been plated, and wasn't prepared proper thus the peeling.
     
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  13. dividebytube

    dividebytube Active Member

    Given the low value of this year and mint, I wonder why anyone bothered! Worse comes to worse, I'll start a new box of junk coins to help me ponder on the folly of man.

    When I get home I'll try to get some better photos plus an edge shot.
     
  14. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

  15. dividebytube

    dividebytube Active Member

    hopefully a better pic - especially compared to a 1881-P

    comparo.jpg
     
  16. dividebytube

    dividebytube Active Member

    And if anyone is still curious about this coin - three more mediocre pics (including a nice detail of a scar I got 15 years ago).

    morgan22.jpg morgan23.jpg morgan24.jpg

    I need to work on my photography/light skills!

    Also confirmed it is not magnetic.
     
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