Help with Crystal Coin!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by 7Calbrey, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    When I first saw this "coin" as a photo on iPhone, I thought it's a Monogram like other Byzantine coins that I own. After purchasing it, at hand, I was amazed to see the obverse as a big glass ball, the size of a marble. Big compared to a coin, of course.The color looks rainbow. The ball is within a hexagon. It weighs 4.37 g. Diameter is 22 mm.
    Hope someone had ever encountered such an item. Thank you.

    Crysbal R.JPG Crysby O.JPG
     
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  3. shanxi

    shanxi Well-Known Member

    Not my field of knowledge, but maybe a byzantine glass weight ?
     
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  4. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Thanks. That's what I've logically thought. Still, I don't know if the glass ball is common or has any significance.
     
  5. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    It appears to be the glass "seal" broken off from a hand-blown glass bottle with the hexagonal part being the remains of the wall of the bottle, such seals were used in Western Europe and America from the 17th to 19th century to indicate the ownership of that commissioned batch of bottles, or to customize the bottles used by different high-quality brands of wine or liquor which would clearly prove the authenticity of the contents (people would try to imitate popular products and labels and sell their lower quality product at premium prices). Here are some English examples:
    sealedwinebottles.jpg
    I don't know about the practices of the further East or Byzantium so perhaps it is something else and rather older, but at first glance it looks like a 18th-19th century European (maybe French?) glass bottle seal to me.
     
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  6. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    For what it's worth, the monogram does look Late Roman or Byzantine. Not sure about bottles, though.
     
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  7. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Guess I shoulda looked a bit more closely at the monogram, it would be quite at home on one of Anastasius' Nummi. I wonder if "commemorative" glass goblets and whatnot were made to celebrate his reign, decorated with glass seals like that?
     
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  8. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    While I have a decent working knowledge of antiquities in general, I am not sure of this. Something in the back of my mind hits on glass like this, but I just cant remember. I think it is Byzantine, but that's just a fragmented memory of things remembered past. The monogram seems late Roman to Byzantine. Hard to see from the photo, BDE, PBDE, etc.
     
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  9. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    I found this, looks quite relevant:

    https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/...0023/lot-8d39e3c0-6699-410d-9d0c-a47b00f3b696

    glass.jpg

    I circled one that looks quite similar to yours. They are described as a variety of weights and glass vessel stamps, for example:

    6.33G Large glass vessel stamp for a measure of “kamun” or white cumin dated 123h and in the name of al-Qasim b. ‘Ubayd Allah, Finance Director of Egypt, and Dawud b. al-Murr his executive

    16.64G Glass vessel stamp for a qist of olive oil for a Fals, in the name of al-Qasim b. ‘Ubayd Allah, Finance Director of Egypt, and Muslim b. al-Arraf, his executive

    2.89G Glass vessel stamp, anonymous
    As an antique bottle collector I'd probably pass-out if I obtained an intact jar with that dated 123 AH (AD 740-741) "kamun" stamp, these are very interesting and way older than the European ones.

    I don't know which pieces the different descriptions refer to, but based on the fact that remains of glass are stuck to the back of your piece and the insight provided by this auction lot it appears that what you have is a Byzantine or Islamic "Glass vessel stamp". It's quite an interesting find, and maybe the book referenced in the auction "A Catalogue of Early Islamic Glass Stamps in the British Museum" contains some scholarship and information regarding your artifact.
     
  10. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I think that the sharp edges showing in the OP indicate that it is the base of a glass vase, marked by the maker or for the owner. Some of these bases were later on (after the breaking of the actual vase) used as exagia or regular weights, which is probably how they ended up being used (and copied) during the islamic invasions.
     
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  11. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    FWIW, I do not see any fractographic characteristics that would indicate that it is a broken part of a larger item.
     
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  12. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Those pointy things on the left image look to my like what is left from a broken glass vase at its base. Maybe a profile pic would also help to see if it is really a shard or the pointy things are just features.
     
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  13. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    O.K. Here are a couple of 2 new relevant shots.

    Cryseal.JPG CryProf.JPG
     
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  14. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I think it is the bottom of a glass vase. The pointy shards there are what is left.
     
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  15. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    A monogram on a commercial weight made of lead at 82g. The monogram looks to me like a late 5th century or later.

    765236.jpg
     
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  16. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    The irregular ovate profile, apparent unstable irregularity of the "rim" and lack of characteristic wear on the high points which would be found on the bases of glass items used for any length of time seem to preclude it from being the base of a vase, though I certainly don't have experience with 1,500 year old glass vases. I've seen a Roman mold-blown hexagonal jar found in the UK with a recessed base bearing an embossed maker's mark, but it was integral to the vessel and not added separately. It's possible but my money's on it being a bottle/jar seal intended to be highly visible, not hidden underneath.
     
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  17. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Another possibility outside that of the bottom of a vase might be a vase with round panels like this one, mid 7th century, Levantine origin. This pic I got is from the internet, I have no other information about this particular piece, possibly a catalog entry from an auction.

    72692193_2289378101185388_7553542907412611072_n.jpg
     
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  18. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    One thing to keep in mind, many manufacturers placed their names on their wares. Pottery, fibulae, etc. Though I am not sure about glass, I would assume its a manufacturers mark.
     
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  19. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    ... or the monogram of the customer.
     
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