Counterfeit or acid treated 1852 Braided Hair Large Cent?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by C-B-D, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Recently bought a partial album of U.S. Large Cents and this coin was in there. Common date. VF detail. Sounds different in the "drop test." Posted here for study, reference, and discussion. @TypeCoin971793 @Jack D. Young @Conder101
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  3. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Drop test for a copper coin!?
    Didn't know there was such a procedure.
     
  4. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Unofficial or unheard of.... doesn't really matter. There's still a noticeable difference in the sound it makes when dropped onto my desk from 6 inches or so, when compared to the sound a genuine copper Braided Hair Cent makes. The "ping" is different. It is higher pitched.
     
  5. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Interesting.
    Outside of a faulty (cracked) planchet I can't image a cause.
    But it sure needs consideration.
     
  6. Legomaster1

    Legomaster1 Cointalk Patron

    Have you weighed it? The reverse appears fuzzy and distorted, so the coin could have been acid treated.
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    What is the weight?
     
  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I would expect an acid treated coin to have etched surfaces. I suspect that this is counterfeit.
     
  9. toned_morgan

    toned_morgan Toning Lover

    It isn't grainy, so I don't think it's a fake. Measure it and weigh it.

    Just a stupid idea, but do you think it could have been carved out of a Chuck-E-Cheese's token? They make a pretty high pitched noise. Also if someone had the time on their grabbers to make a counterfeit why make it look like a shoddy worn down coin.
     
  10. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Definitely check the density. About this time, the mint was starting to play with different copper alloys for patterns. This isn't a pattern; at least not a known one. But it's possible that it was struck in an unusual copper alloy.

    XRF surface analysis might be a good idea. There is a dealer or two who will do it for you at a show. PM me if you need more info.

    Cal
     
  11. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    This coin looks acid treated to me. Not only are the struck details mushy, but so are many of the marks on the coin, which is what one should expect if they existed before an acid treatment.

    Moreover, the weight and thickness of the coin - both determiners of its fundamental natural frequency - have presumably been reduced by the apparent removal of material. That means the frequency at which it naturally vibrates would change. This is not to say one can expect to hear the coin "ring" like in a test of a silver coin, but it does ring. It's just at a different frequency, and may not be within the audible frequency range of the human ear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  12. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I have kids... and Chucky Cheese tokens are smaller in diameter than a Braided Hair Cent. But I know the sound they make in a pocketful of change, so point taken.
     
  13. gronnh20

    gronnh20 Well-Known Member

    Either the planchet was underweight or it was weakly struck. The rest of the coin looks correct. Looks like the coin attributes to N-23.
     
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  14. buckeye73

    buckeye73 Well-Known Member

    This coin looks acid treated.
     
  15. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    7.8 g
    .268 oz
     
  16. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Was acid treating a method used for cleaning coins once upon a time?
     
  17. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    You mean conservation. Mercury had uses also. Is that why the term cleaning got such a bad rap?
     
  18. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Coin is supposed to be 10.9 g. If 3.1 g had been removed from the surface, it would look a lot worse than it does unless tooled after acid. So, struck on underweight planchet, perhaps composed of an unusual copper alloy. So, mint error or fake? What are the dimensions?

    Cal
     
  19. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately all I have is a scale, not a way to measure the dimensions.
     
  20. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    You don't have a ruler???! Put a modern cent on the coin with one edge lined up.
     
  21. buckeye73

    buckeye73 Well-Known Member

    I recall seeing at least two thin, underweight large cents at an EAC Convention, having this surface appearance.
    One was offered for sale by a well-known large cent dealer and described as “acid-etched.” This a basis for my opinion.
     
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