Egyptian AE from local dealer's Junk Bin - Veiled Woman & Cornucopiae - Help!

Just got this from my local dealer - $2 in his junk bin. It appears to be Egyptian, but I cannot figure it out. It is very thin for a Ptolemaic AE - it most looks like a gold issue of Arsinoe, but I am pretty sure that's not gold I'm seeing.

The photos are before-and-after - I gently cleaned it with olive oil when I got it home. It is 23 mm in diameter and weighs 7.26 grams. Again, it seems way too thin for a Ptolemaic issue. I got three others with it - all Roman Alexandria issues that I was able to figure out. This one stumps me, however.

Much obliged!

 

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I don't know what it is, but I like it! Also, what kind of dealer do you go to that has things like that in their "junk" bin?
My LCS junk bin is 80 cents per coin for modern proof crap from the Bahamas, Israel, or 60's Canadian cents.

 

I'm tellin' you, furryfrog02, today was like Christmas in September! As soon as I can get some goodish photos and attributions, I'll post the others. My local guy is a knowledgeable ancients guy, but he doesn't bother with low-grade stuff, so he dumps them in the junk bin. His other stuff is unaffordable (for me).

 

Ok, that seals it. I’m coming to visit

 

It appears to be cast.

 

I believe it may be an AE cast trying to be a gold octodrachm.
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=182257

 

I agree with Doug and certainly not gold.

 

Unfortunately is a fake most likely.

 

Someone tried to pass a fake Nero billon tet on me (cast) so one does have to look out for this sort of thing.

 

Well darn. I was hoping for an octodrachm! Thank you all for your input - I do appreciate it, even when the news is bad.

All four of the "Egyptian" coins came from a dealer's junk box. Maybe all of them are "old" tourist fakes? Here is the lot as I found them with closeups of the other three (plus a Gallienus). They all were noted on the flips as having come from Egypt in 1972. They could well be tourist fakes, though they all three had some very convincing crud (of the three, I am pretty sure the Salonina is genuinely ancient):



Hadrian hemidrachm with Isis Pharia - this looks like Dattari 1753 (per some auctions I found). However, it is light at 7.78 grams. I've never handled a Roman-Egyptian hemidrachm, so I have nothing to compare it with, but I think it's thin:


Hadrian tetradrachm with Selene bust - Dattari 1482. Again, a bit light at 9.5 grams.



Salonina tetradrachm with Eirene. Dattari 5331. Weighs 7.7 grams. I think this one might be good, if damaged.



Those were all $2 each. I (over)paid $10 for this Gallienus antoninianus with VICTORIA AET reverse. The portrait is nice and I think it is the only Gallienus I have with (a little) silvering left.


Again, thanks everybody for helping out with the Veiled Mystery. I appreciate it.

 

I would guess that the remainder of the Egyptian pieces are authentic. As an interesting aside I spent four months in Egypt a few years back and never saw a single coin for sale even though I looked pretty carefully. Most of these Ptolemaic and Imperial time issues appear to be squirreled out of the country to foreign dealers, along with other pilfered antiquities (scarabs, ushabtis, etc.)

 

Both of the Hadrians look a little off to me, unfortunately. Compare the first one especially to some cast fakes on FORVM. Still kind of interesting in their own way I guess, not a ton of fake Alexandrians on the market.

On another note, one of my archaeology professors reported seeing bins of unsorted Alexandrian coins being sold for $1 each in Egypt back in the mid '70s, along with literal mummy heads and body parts being hawked on street corners. A lot has changed.

 

I agree.

Hadrian Tetradrachms are usually in the weight range of 13 to 14g, and the silver content is still high.

Also the appearance of the two coins is soapy.

 

Thank you all for your input on my junk bin Alexandrians. I've never owned anything like this earlier than Commodus, and all of them are tets. Which is to say I've been trying to educate myself on Alexandrian denominations, metals, etc.

In regards to the Hadrian featuring Selene, I found an example on the RPC website, which notes 14 examples with an average weight of 8.98 grams. Which would pretty much fall in line with mine. Could be a "soapy" cast copy of correct weight, but it gave me a glimmer of hope that it might be okay. Anyway, below is a new, I hope clearer, photo with my attribution and a link to RPC.

On the other hand, an example on FORVM weighs 12.44 grams and looks more "silver" to me.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/moonmoth/coins/hadrian_033.html

Any additional input always welcome - I'm sure I'm missing something!



Hadrian Billon Tetradrachm
(Year 10 / 125-126 A.D.)
Alexandria Mint
AYT KAI TPAI AΔPIA CEB, laureate,draped and cuirassed bust right / LΔE-KATOY, bust of Selene right, crowned with crescent on taenia,
RCV (2002) 3728; Dattari 1482; Milne 1109; Geissen 916
(9.50 grams / 24 mm)

Attribution Note:
RPC III, 5595 tetradrachm:
Average diameter 24 mm
Average weight 8.98 g
Specimens 14
https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/3/5595

 

The silver content on these seems pretty variable. Maybe it leeched out easily, or their quality control was just bad, so can't really go by then. Maybe try and get a picture of the edge of that one. They are usually relatively smooth and rounded, with no sharp edges or sprues (unlike Alexandrian AEs).

 

Thank you for the input, SeptimiusT. Here are a couple of rim shots -

 

I like the look of that one better, and I've seen corroded Hadrian tetradrachms that look like they have no silver content which were nevertheless authentic. The only area that looks potentially odd is on the left edge of the first picture, but so long as there is no filing I would feel comfortable with it. For reference, here's the edge of a similar looking authentic Hadrian tetradrachm from my collection, along with a cast fake Antoninus Pius tetradrachm (very large, click to expand thumbnails):

Authentic Hadrian:

Cast Antoninus Pius:

 

Thank you so much - I feel much, much better about this one.

As for that Isis Pharia Hadrian from this bunch - it just doesn't match anything I could find online, and so am sure it is a (fake) - but a fake hemidrachm, rather than a tetradrachm. Sorta like this one:

https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=81862

Again, thanks for your help with this. I do appreciate it.

 

In the time of Hadrian and most of the earlier half of Alexandrian coins there are AE coins that resemble tets in size (diobols are the best fit) but can be distinguished easily by fabric. The coin blanks were cast in open top moulds with tapering sides we know well from the larger drachms. More often, but not always, the smaller side of the taperer shoulders ended up on the obverse but a coin struck on a tapered flan in either orientation is not a tetradrachm. A coin of this period without a taper and no silver whatsoever is one to question carefully.

Hadrian tet - notice lack of differently tapered edge on the two sides

Domitian obol - tapered edge on obverse


Hadrian obol


Aelius hemidrachm


Pius diobol (ex X6)


Pius obol- tapered shoulders on reverse


Commodus diobol - wear makes this less obvious but the tapered edge is on the obverse

 

Thank you for providing those examples, Doug. They are helpful. I think mine definitely falls under the "question carefully" category, as I'm not seeing a taper. But it is similar to the SeptimusT example. I'm definitely in the "still learning" category with these.