Question on coin surfaces

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Juggalo, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    I've noticed on a lot of the newer coins the surface have a lot of (all I can call them are) little marks on them. They really stand out on dimes I think because of their size. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed these and does anyone know what's causing this? The marks are noticeable under magnification. I'm including the best picture I could get of them. Thanks for any info you can provide.
     

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  3. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    What are you using for magnification @Juggalo ?

    If you are using a USB microscope, you can even zoom in until you see nothing but pixels. My suggestion would be to use a 10x loupe for most coins. A USB scope is really only good for examining something like flea excrement if you want to be a biologist.

    Chris
     
  4. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    The pictures were taken with a USB microscope. It unfortunately turned out not to be a very good one I got it through Geek. If i increase the magnification more than I used to take the photos all you see are pixels. The hand magnifier I use is 80×. I'd still like to find out what it is with the surface of the coins it's like there are thousands of tiny little cuts on them.
     
  5. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

    I think you may be seeing what is known as striation marks caused by worn dies.
     
  6. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    They must be running a lot of old dies because I'm seeing a lot of coins all denominations.
     
    alurid likes this.
  7. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

    It would be interesting to know what the press operator sees that tells him its time to change the dies. I remember someone posting that the mint get 100,000 coin from one set of dies.
    There is also die cleaning lines that show up on the surface of coins, they are usually longer lines that look more like scratches on the coins.
    43 steel (62).jpg
     
  8. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    I've noticed those to and was wondering what they were thanks. Is that a picture of a steel wheat penny my friend actually found one in near mint condition while riding his bicycle it was on the street and hadn't been run over fortunately.
     
  9. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

    .
    Yes it is a 1943 cent.
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    High magnification is all well and good when you're trying to figure certain things out, and it allows one to have a higher level of understanding. But, the level of magnification that one uses depends on what you are trying to do. Take grading for example, 95% of all grading is done with the naked eye. And only 5x is required for grading coins 67 and up. Magnification higher than 5x is typically only used to confirm certain varieties that cannot be confirmed with 5x, and even then 10x is as high as you need go.

    A hundred thousand is nothing, there are dies that have been known to strike many times that. Some over a million.
     
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  11. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    The mint's job on coins for circulation is to pump them out in quantity. Proofs and special editions are different, but even those can be affected. It looks like they always run a die until it is almost totally cracked :)
     
    Terrifrompa likes this.
  12. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    They definitely seem to be running them more ragged than they use to because I'm coming across coins with those tiny little cuts covering them all the time lately. I haven't found a coin in what would be a circulated mint state in longer than I can remember even in new rolls from the bank all I find are coins with these marks it's especially bad on dimes.
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    These marks that you're referring too, that is NOT what determines whether a coin is mint state or not mint state. There's only 1 thing that separates mint state from not mint state - and that is wear. And the marks that you're referring to, they do not constitute wear, nor are they caused by wear.
     
  14. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    I didn't know that I just assumed it did because they make the details of the coin blurry.
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I get what you're saying, but it's really the high magnification doing that, not the marks. Even the highest grade coins will look blurry if you look at them with high magnification.

    If you're gonna use magnification at all to view coins, you shouldn't use anything more stronger than 5x.
     
  16. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    I'll keep that in mind and get a new magnifier. Thanks for the tip.
     
    Johndoe2000$ likes this.
  17. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    They were getting 100,000 per die pair back in the mid 19th century. Today rough figures are 300,000 to 500,000 for five cent pieces, 500 to 750 thousand for dimes, quarters, and halves, cents can get between 1 and 1.5 million coins per die pair. (Proof coin die life is MUCH lower, between 3 and 5 thousand.)
     
  18. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    Maybe if they used better materials to make the dies out of they'd use fewer dies and get better quality coins.
     
  19. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    ...and they really don't care.
     
  20. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    What would you suggest they make the dies out of instead of high quality tool steel?
     
  21. Juggalo

    Juggalo Active Member

    My grandfather work for Skunk Works back when they were working on the Apollo rockets and he had a ring made out of a titanium alloy they were using and all the work had to be done including his initials that were engraved on it while it was still just below the point of being liquid because once it cooled before that you couldn't even scratch it.
     
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