Centering Marks

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Randy Abercrombie, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    First I need to apologize for the low quality photo. It is the only photo I took before I sent the piece in to be interred in plastic.

    I been collecting a long time and was introduced a few weeks ago to this interesting fact that I had not been aware of before by @TheFinn and @justafarmer. It makes sense that early designers had to work from a point of reference. That reference would be a centering point. Since that thread I have been searching my collection trying to find an example. I had been looking for a divot or a recess. More I think about it, a centering point would be a raised point on the coin I think. And darned if you can’t see it in this photo, but just behind Lady Liberty’s ear is a perfectly round pimple that appears dead center of the obverse. Would this have been the designers centering point?

    DE28D10F-978C-4373-BA96-8FA2954F2398.jpeg
     
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  3. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    I don't think so. It would be sunk down into the die, so a raised point on the coins. Most times they are not seen on the obverse because the punch with the bust design would obliterate it. Usually you only see the one on the reverse between ONE and CENT.
     
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  4. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The centering dot can be anything from a tiny spot that you can mostly see with a 10X glass on a high grade (AU or better) coin to a big dot that can jump out at you if you are looking for it. I will have go though my photos of early U. S. Coins to find a good example. I can’t now because I’m on an iPad. The spot on your 1794 cent appears to be a bit low for the centering dot.
     
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  5. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Center dots are done to provide layout lines for placement of the lettering, and the lettering is applied after the central device is punched in so usually the certer dot is created after the device punch.

    It is usually easier to see on the reverse of most coins because there is no design in the center.
     
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  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Here are a few. They can be tough to see on the obverse.
    Image_0280.jpg Image_0282.jpg Image_1619.JPG Image_1688.JPG
     
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  7. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I would love to see the tools they used. They must have had a jig of some type to hold the punches on the layout lines.
     
  8. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I can spot the center dot on a number of my photos of early coins, but they are hard to see unless you are used to looking for them. Here is a fairly obvious one on this 1796 dime.

    1796 Dime O Cen Dot.JPG 1796 Dime O.JPG
     
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  9. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Maybe, but some of the letters move around enough to make you think that Robert Scot just did it freehand. Check out the lettering on the reverse of this 1795 half dime. The "D" in "UNITED" is crooked and letters in "STATES" are up and down.

    1795HalfDimeR.JPG

    Edited to add that the center dot on this reverse is quite easy to see on the "arm pit" area of the eagle's right wing.
     
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  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The centering compass would look something like this. One point at the center of the die and the other leg scribes the placement line As far as I know no jigs were used for letter punch placement.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Wish I had a better quality image to work with. I drew a circle based on the arc created by three points located on the bottom side of "LIBERTY". I think I may see a centering mark located near the pivot point of the circle I created but I am not sure.
    Center Dot.JPG
     
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  12. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

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  13. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Center Dot 2.JPG
     
  14. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you. When the cent returns from the TPG I will confirm the location and update the thread. I sure appreciate the tools you share with us here.
     
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