Well, It's Not Working

BTW, I do believe that the HA Buyer's Premium is excessive.

10% seems MORE than fair enough, IMO.

 

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Excessive? It's more like 'put up your hands'.......

 

You seem to have a reasonable, well thought out plan for auctions. Sounds much like mine.

Unfortunately, we often wind up bidding against those who come running in with the money in their fists. They pay too much — but wind up with the coin.

 

Hey, it happens. If a Silicon Valley punk with an 8 or 9-figure net worth wants to pay $125,000 for a top-rated 1907 Saint HR 66, there's nothing you can do about it even if the most unique specimens for that grade should be closer to $75,000.

It only takes One Dumb Buyer.

 

You are not alone, and I'm probably one of your competitors who watches numerous resources looking for "underpriced/bid" classic gold material. I watch the inventory/offerings of major dealers, and have pretty well exhausted the inventory of quality material available at a "reasonable" price.

This last week I was only able to acquire one low budget coin, a 1894 $10 Liberty Head Eagle PCGS MS63+ CAC coin. This isn't a coin of which I'd normally have interest, but the market appears tight for buyers, with numerous buyers having "investment funds", looking for alternatives in a changing world. With your system, what would you have paid for that coin, regardless of your "norms". It's appears apparent that your norms aren't available on your terms

I use the resources you've stated, but have found the pricing/supply information deficient in the current changing numismatic market, with sellers seeming wanting more for lesser material.

I'm getting an unusual amount of requests from major auction houses to list my collections, as I only sell my outdated material at very competitive prices to realistic buyers, and they've watched my purchases/sales. My sales are below fair market prices, and my cost to purchase, immediately reinvesting to acquire better quality material at a new established basis.

I personally have found the wish prices of publishers unrealistic, and have widened my range of interest and pricing, it may also work for you. I don't want to be on the list for solicitations by major publishers, and have even placed a want inquiry here for a new publication by C.D.N. and another firm. I knew that the request here was unrealistic, to a limited allowable audience. I eventually received part of that wanted at a retail price from another source who had gotten enamored, buying the minimum annual offering from the publisher. The buy pricing was unrealistic as I believe usual, but to my advantage, knowing that many rely on those indicated. I just look for the anomaly which is to my advantage.

JMHO

 

Pshaw, this low budget dreck. Who'd even have interest? https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-ea...6-8578.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

/sarcasm

 

If anyone would have expected to purchase that coin at the listed Greysheet price of $690, they definitely have a "low budget" for purchasing believed Quality classic U.S. Gold coins. A little over a year after that auction, the indicated price is appreciably less than recent melt value for that coin. I probably would have paid PCGS listed retail value at that time, but definitely not through Heritage.

Although I was a past high volume Heritage buyer for more expensive U.S. classic Gold, receiving significant literature currently through the mail, I can't even view the final sales price for that coin.

JMHO

 

Buying coins at the major auctions is difficult and usually more expensive than buying from a dealer at a show. I have frequently had the bids on coins that interested me “go to the moon” as soon as I bid on them. It’s become a running joke for me.

Auctions are the place to bid on pieces that are really special that you can’t find elsewhere. They are not the place to buy “widgets” and semi-special items. There are people, usually on the less informed side of the market, who bid in auctions because they think it is “safer.” After all, if someone else is bidding against you, the item must be good, right? Wrong, if both you are equally ignorant.

When bidding, I do take the buyers’ fee into account. I figure what I want to pay and dividend that amount by 1 + the buyers’ fee. That means if the fee is 20%, I divide the price I am willing to pay by 120%.

I ignore the shipping costs. If I go to a show, it costs me something, even it’s only gas and wear and tear on the car. If have to stay at a hotel, it’s a lot more. So if I am just home and bidding, I figure that the travel versus shipping costs is sort of a wash.

 

And very often there is at least “one dumb buyer” for, it seems, every coin at every auction in the major sales. Some bidders are going to buy the item, no matter what you bid. That’s why the increasing buyers’ fee angers me. Some bidders really do ignore them. They have more money than brains. You just have to accept that and move on.

 

Curious....what specific coins would that apply to, TC ?

Would it be high-grade examples of popular series, like Saints and/or maybe the High Relief 1907s ? Or is it a more obscure coin or bill, like Revolutionary War or 17th or 18th Century stuff ?

Or maybe you just know from several of your repeat customers that they will definitely have interest/buy any specific bills or series ?

 

The only way to win such an auction is to ascertain what a normal, sane individual would be willing to pay for that item then DOUBLE that amount and subtract $1 in your snipe. It is unlikely that you will ever encounter another individual who will engage this tactic. In most cases, the normal, sane bidder will have blown his wad and you will then be able to win at the very next bid increment which will fall short of the double value you placed.

Coin collector bidders on ebay are a strange sort who flock to certain sellers, though. Some coins go for far more than they should, only because the item was sold by XYZ. It's those kinds of sellers that demand a bit more oversight...unless you have very deep pockets. One of my favorite sellers of this ilk is a member here, and it's true that his coins deserve the higher bids they often get.

 

I agree. With the coins that I specialize in, knowing the market (in my case, an overseas market for the coins) has definitely helped me obtain certain coins in this market that I had learned would resell at higher prices at a later time. This is because the overseas market drives the prices for my coins, and the market for these coins in North America eventually catches up, usually after a couple of years.

Knowing the market for U.S. coins implies knowledge gained from staying quite active in that market.

 

"Knowing the market" is pretty easy when dealing in liquid, often-traded, popular coins. Think common Saints or even 1907 HRs...same with common bills.

It's when stuff trades less frequently and there are minute differences in SN's and other stuff (esp. with bills where there is greater variation) that you don't know what the "market" really is. You might have a BALLPARK figure -- but is the ballpark within 10% or 50% ?

How far back in time are the comp sales ? Are the grades comparable ? Were there any OBSCURE distinguishing characteristics that made it more/less desirable (i.e., Fed district or block numbers on bills) ? Was the sale an outlier on Ebay or HA and if so, why ?

Those are some questions that I ask myself when I can.

 

I actually don't "double and subtract $1," and the result is that I lose a lot of those auctions, too. About half. There is a trade-off to my bidding method, of course, in that you have to be comfortable losing half the time. Also, the coins I bid on are probably not as competitive as U.S. coins, so I have an easier time... so far.

Also I am not loyal to any seller, no matter how much I liked previous sales interactions with them.

I like coins, not sellers.

 

After participating in Heritage auctions many years ago, with only one win, I chose to end that experience. When eBay was just getting off the ground, there were phenomenal opportunities to buy large cent varieties using BIN and sniping techniques. That has all changed in recent years. The simplicity is gone.
The buyers fees of up to 20% in on line auctions plus other related cost are just too much. I have turned to Frank Robinson for the majority of my on line bidding and fixed price purchases. The bidding is simplified as follows:
1. There are no buyer’s fees.
2. The S, I and H are reasonable. He saves on cost by using old discounted odd denomination stamps and simple shipping materials.
3. As a result, my bid is very close to what I value the coin.

It should be noted that I realize no financial gain resulting from my comments and opinions above. JMHO.
Dan

 

Well, let's talk common Saints. You have the year and grade which are a given.....the variables that change are mint mark (if any) and the items you cited which are more subjective to the naked eye. Definitely to be considered but subjective and NOT usually included on the slab (except PF, and PL for moderns).

With bills, you have the year and grade again....but then you have the Fed District (some common for a common year, others very rare !).....you also have the batch numbers (again, some common, some very rare)....and then you can look at other things that appear on the slab like Light or Dark Green Seals....Silver or Gold Certificate...etc.

Put it this way: if you could ask only 3 questions about a coin, you can almost always nail the type and neighborhood for cost (Year, Grade, then probably Mint mark or some other 3rd variable). But with bills/paper currency, Year + Grade + 3rd variable still leaves alot of variation possible (if you go with Fed District and it's common, what if the Serial Number is a solid or sequential ? Price would skyrocket).