Honesty on Ebay?

Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb:

In the past two days I've ran across two improperly listed Large Cents and on both occasions, I messaged the seller and explained the problem(s) and in another situation I ran across a counterfeit Double Eagle and I will explain it further below.

On the first one, the seller said it was too close to the auction ending and Ebay wouldn't allow him to edit the listing and I explained that editing may not be allowed but additional information, in the form of questions & answers, is allowed but he did nothing and a 1795 Half-Cent was sold as a 1795 Large Cent and I'm at odds over whether I should contact the buyer and tell them this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140225625303&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

The second situation occurred yesterday and it was listed as a 1794 Large Cent when in fact, it's a Draped Bust Cent but I'm not sure what the date is. Someone else contacted the seller before I did and the seller had the Q & A posted on the listing, but as you will see, it did no good and so I contacted him too and fully explained why it was not a Capped Bust Cent but rather a Draped Bust Cent (including links to photos of the real thing). He has not posted my Question or his Answer and I wonder if it has something to do with the fact I left no room for questions as to what his coin was and he is deliberately trying to sell a DBC as a CBC?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140227595998&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

The third situation pertained to a counterfeit Double Eagle in Germany and I messaged the seller and he replied that he didn't understand English so I sent him a reply in German (spreche deutsch) and he also hasn't changed the listing or canceled it, so that tells me he's intentionally selling a counterfeit as the real thing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110246893755&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

About the only thing that needs to be added/changed on "Lady Liberty" to make her look more manly is to add an adams apple to her. :goof: That isn't a good counterfeit and what's even more interesting is the seller has another one for sale (same date & mint) and on that listing he doesn't provide a close-up photo but he does provide a reverse pic, not that either do any good considering the quality of the photos because I can't tell if the second one is authentic or not because of the poor pics but the first one is a dead ringer.

I just wanted to "get these off my chest" and rant to someone that would listen, so I posted it here for discussion.

Ribbit,
Toad

 

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TOAD, not trying to put you down ... but unless you intend to buy the coins from the seller, its no concern of yours. If you want action, report it to ebay, they will look at the seller's listing and take appropriate action. Ozarktravler

 

I think people report dubious listings on this site on order to protects members from here.

 

It is very helpful to me to know who to avoid. I don't have the grading skills of some people and knowing who to avoid and who I can safely purchase from is valuable.

Besides, it really irratates me alot that folks do things like that just to make a buck, no concern over whom they might be ripping off........

 

Ebay doesn't seem to care so why report it to them? As to no concern to me, I guess if I see someone getting mugged I should turn a blind eye since it's not me getting mugged? Theft is theft no matter if it's strong-armed robbery or deceitful sellers on Ebay and while I feel helpless to do anything about it, I at least spoke up and maybe someone will hear my words but I didn't turn a blind eye!

Like I said in my close, I just wanted to rant about the dishonesty I've been witnessing on Ebay and since I don't have someone in my personal life to rant to that understands coins, I ranted here.

Ribbit

Ps: If the seller had authentic coins, I would have bid on them, if I wanted them, and the fact I was in his store provides intent also. Just because I don't desire to purchase counterfeit coins being sold as authentic doesn't preclude me from speaking out about them, if anything, it gives me me a basis for doing so. I see peeps posting questionable coins in here that they bid on and won and everyone says that person has to pay for it even if it is a counterfeit because it's a contract, that they should have questioned it in the beginning. So why does someone have to fully intend on buying something to say something in here about the seller's dishonest ways? Did you not read what I said about me taking the time to email the sellers about their coins? I didn't just look at their coins and pass judgement, I tried to get the seller to correct their listing and I do believe there are many members here who would like to stay away from dishonest/questionable sellers so intending to buy is not a valid reason to not say something about dishonest/questionable sellers.

As to the Half-Cent, I did want to bid on it but I could not compete with the price of a Large Cent so that precluded me from bidding. A 1795 Large Cent is worth more than a 1795 Half-Cent, barring variety issues (if you didn't know that). It would be like bidding on a 1878-P AU-55 Morgan Silver Dollar being listed & sold as a 1878-CC Morgan and other bidders aren't aware it isn't a CC but a P, you can't compete with the bids.

Pps: My post also shows it is our responsibility to look the coin over carefully prior to bidding, because the seller can make a mistake and improperly list a coin (Half-Cent listing). I have messaged well over a hundred sellers about improperly listed coins and they've fixed their listing but the ones I spoke about here didn't. What does that say about the seller? I leave that up to you to decide but if I made a mistake on a listing, I'd do anything in my power to correct it even if that meant killing the listing and having to pay the 30 cents to relist it properly. If I made the mistake, I pay for it and I am prone to mistakes given how screwed up my time is so it's bound to happen to me eventually.

 

I see nothing wrong with toad letting sellers know about their listing errors. So Toad did alright in my opinion - and the honest sellers would fix their auctions.

 

I second that. He didn't just show up with accusations, he showed up with logic, reason, and a reasonable basis for sharing the knowledge that he did.

 

Toad:
Loved that 'Richard Nixon' commemorative double eagle (look at the nose!)

Good luck.

 

I was trying to remember where I saw that nose before! :mouth:

Ribbit

 

Earlier I ranted about dishonest/questionable sellers, so now I'm going to speak about an honest one since we hardly do that and I think it is appropriate considering how we all view these types of situations and plus, I'd like Ozark to understand I email over 25 sellers per day asking for either better photos or the weight of the coin and only a few reply and out of those, it's rare I get total honesty from the seller but this seller qualifies.

I was looking at some silver dollars a seller had for sale and since he is in Germany, the listing was in German. I copy-pasted the listing into an internet translator but I didn't see anything about the coins being "copies" so I asked for better photos. Here is his reply:

"Please find attached photos of the entire set, front and back.

I understand you are located in the US, so before bidding, please be aware of the high overseas shipping costs. Even if I should keep the case and send only the coins, we'd end up with about 10 Euros (~ 15 $). Shipping the case as well, the costs are a lot higher.

For all I know, these are fake coins (which is explained by the German word "Nachprägung" in the text), so probably it's not worth the highg costs. If, however, you should still be interested, I shall be glad to make business with you.

Kind regards

Markus"


Here is my reply to him:

"Hey Markus,

The word "Nachprägung" was the only word the internet translator couldn't translate. Go figure? I was concerned about the coins being copies and that is why I emailed you. Usually when silver dollars are listed on Ebay Europe, the price soars but on yours the price was staying low and that made me worry I didn't catch something the other people did catch, which is what did occur.

Thanks,
George"

While it is common knowledge we (me included) will take time to complain about dishonest/questionable sellers, we should sometimes take time to praise the outright honest ones too.

Ribbit

Ps: In case someone wants to see the coins we were discussing, they're here and they are the common counterfeits seen all over Ebay.

 

Toad:
Nice letters back & forth.

Seems like a nice guy also.

 

I meet so many nice peeps on Ebay but I, like so many, usually only take the time to talk about the bad ones. I thought it was time I spoke up for all the honest sellers too. :thumb:

I have so many complaints about Ebay but I still shop on it, not because it's the only place to shop, but because of all the decent honest sellers I come across. Out of a hundred, I'd say I bump into a couple of ones that are questionable and someone said in an earlier post that the only bad expeience they had on Ebay was from a seller in the UK, which I've had 100% positive experience when dealing with our former comrades. :hail:

I've bought coins from around the world and I will continue to do so, but I am much more cautious now than I was in the begining and I ask a lot of questions.

Ribbit

 

Right on. Just like mainstream media, no one reports good news. Lots of good folks on E-Bay.

Good work, Toad. It's vital to report E-Bay hustlers for the reasons pointed out above - giving others the lookout. Many inexperienced folks tune in here and are saved a lot of trouble.

 

Here we go, a situation has just occurred so I figured why not let everyone follow this one as it goes down. Here's the listing in question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320242917797&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

The item in question (lot sale) is the second one from the bottom on the left and here's my message to the seller:

"Look a little closer at the "1792" and you will find it isn't 1792. I can see the coin but can't make out the date but I do know it's a Draped Bust Cent, just like the 1803 you have in the lot, and Draped Bust Cents were minted starting in 1796 (see link below):

http://coinfacts.com/large_cents/draped_bust_large_cents/draped_bust_large_cents.html

If you would like to send me a better resolution photo of the coin in question, I will be happy to try to determine the date the best I can and give you my opinion on what it's date actually is.

George "

I just sent the message to the seller so I will keep you posted as to the outcome.

Ribbit

Ps: I run across something similar to this many times every day and I email the seller to try and keep some poor smuck from buying something that isn't what it's being sold as but not always will the seller fix the problem. I thought it would be interesting to go "live" with this one and get sideline input as it goes down. :hammer:

 

The coin above the 1853 Braided Hair is odd. I don't think it's a US large cent at all.

Of course, calling this a lot of Matron Hair cents is inaccurate. I tend to think this one is a mistake / lack of knowledge as opposed to dishonesty.

 

It is possibly an honest mistake but it becomes dishonest when the seller is made aware of their mistake and they choose to ignore it.

The coin in question is a Draped Bust Cent, I just don't know what year because the pic isn't good enough for me to tell but I do know it isn't 1792.

Ribbit

Ps: Like you said, the listing title is in error itself and tends to prove the date mistake is just that, a mistake but now we can all watch to see what the seller's going to do to rectify the situation.

 

It appears to be a 1849 Braided Hair Cent in a very worn condition although I would not bet on it. I do know there were some counterfeits of the 1848 but I haven't heard of the 1849 being counterfeited.

Ribbit

 

You may not and I do not, but eBay does. Read the terms of agreement you signed when you joined. You are not permitted to interfere with another auction and eBay has ruled in the past that is just what toad did.

 

If a piece is so worn it's not clear what type it is, it's time to move on !

 

Probably a good rule. Otherwise, there would be warfare to destroy competing auctions.

I'm not sure about the ruling, however. Would have to look closer at details.