1827 Coronet Cast or struck?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by eric6794, Aug 21, 2019.

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  1. eric6794

    eric6794 Well-Known Member

    Ok here is a more focused image of the coin and I apologize for so many pics fro those that use data but my carpel tunnel is acting up and its hard for me to hold the scope to get a full pic. I also weighed it and it weighs 10.6 grams so who ever tried to counterfeit this tried hard lol.
    I really think you hit it on the head on this. 271.jpg 272.jpg 273.jpg 274.jpg 275.jpg 276.jpg 277.jpg 278.jpg
     
    eric6794, Aug 22, 2019
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  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    most likely he was there.
     
    Treashunt, Aug 22, 2019
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The coin looks cast to me, even before I looked at the 2nd set of pics that was my opinion. The small centered circle on the rev, unless I miss my guess that was the sprue of the mold. Centering points are typically much smaller, and a single point not a circle like this is. But sprues - they look exactly like this - a circle that is filled in the center. And the weakness on the obv in the hair at the back of the neck, base of the skull, I'm guessing that's where wax pooled as it melted in the rest of the mold.

    Granted, cast coins typically have the bubbles, depressions, pits, scattered about here and there - but they don't always have them. With well made copies, those where a vibrator is used correctly as the metal is poured - all of that disappears.

    Could I be wrong about all of it ? Sure ! But I don't think I am.

    Nahhhh - I had other obligations that needed tending that day :)
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 22, 2019
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  5. mgmgmg75

    mgmgmg75 Active Member

    The denticles look wrong. They look more like match stick heads in some places. The date looks to big and clumsy. Cast or minted??
     
    mgmgmg75, Aug 22, 2019
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  6. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    What's the point of faking this coin?
    Seems like a lot of risk for low return and 20 years in federal prison.
     
    Michael K, Aug 22, 2019
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. halfcent1793

    halfcent1793 Well-Known Member

    Struck, IMO.
     
    halfcent1793, Aug 22, 2019
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    While I understand your line of thinking, it's an error made by many. For example, are you aware that the $1 bill is counterfeited far more often than any other bill of any denomination ? It's true. But do you know why the counterfeiters do that ? Because almost nobody would even look at a $1 bill ! So they get away with it with very low risk and a lot of return. Same thing applies to common coins.

    The reasoning is volume more than makes up for low return per unit. It's one of the basic rules of business.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 22, 2019
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Buy Low (Ream of printer paper).
    Sell High (counterfeit dollars)
     
    furryfrog02, Aug 22, 2019
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  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Center dots lasted til around the mid 19th century. Until after about 1867 when the mint got their first portrait lathe that allowed the mint to make master hubs from a model, master dies were still made by hubbing the central device and the hand punching the lettering. The center dot placement of the compass was required for laying out guide lines for the lettering. These master dies would than be used to create working hubs.

    I also believe the OP piece is struck.
     
    Conder101, Aug 22, 2019
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  11. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    [​IMG]
     
    Kentucky, Aug 24, 2019
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  12. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    NVM.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
    Michael K, Aug 24, 2019
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  13. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    With anything in particular, or just in general...I like bacon
     
    Kentucky, Aug 24, 2019
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Tryin to keep up with green are ya ? :rolleyes:

    Forget it, he's too far ahead. :p
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 25, 2019
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  15. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I wondered if you'd come to the believed correct conclusion of an "investment/die cast" piece, as I've seen produced on our proprietary designed equipment for accurate replication of small detailed parts. Good Assessment!! Respectfully, Rich

    JMHO
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
    imrich, Aug 25, 2019
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  16. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Here are some examples for reference
    Dot 1 20190826.JPG Dot 2 20190826.JPG Dot 3 20190826.JPG Dot 4 20190826.JPG Dot 5 20190826.JPG Dot 6 20190826.JPG
     
    justafarmer, Aug 26, 2019
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  17. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    If you look, you can find centering marks into the 1840s. It shows up most on half and large cents because nothing was engraved ot punched over it on the reverse - just lettering. Sometimes you can find the dot in the shield on the reverse of bust halves.
     
    TheFinn, Aug 26, 2019
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