The Official CoinTalk Grading Experiment 4

Sadly, I'm only reporting what I have seen. Two of my most valuable coins are in NGC holders. I have a vested interest in seeing the company remain strong in the U.S. coin grading market. NGC is already the leader in the world coin market.







I have every reason to want NGC to succeed, including the fact that I love to see more viable third party grading services come on the market to keep the two leading services on their toes. Unfortunately the market for third party grading has not allowed that to happen.

 

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No, you are the problem. You made a bad purchase, and are blaming NGC for your misjudgment. As a result, every grading thread you post has some pejorative directed at the TPG. It was a bad choice that you made in purchasing a very expensive coin, without looking at it in person. All the expensive coins that I have bought, I either buy in person, to vindicate that it is a coin I wish to own. Don’t blame the third party for a decision you could have changed the outcome by exercising your right to say “No” to the purchase.

 

It's like you don't even read what I wrote. You just spew venom and deal in personal attacks.

Okay, I’m done with you. I just put you on “ignore.” Life to too short to spend with unpleasant people.

 

For the exact same coin, it will bring less in an NGC holder than a PCGS holder in the exact same grade. How is that remotely fair or healthy for the market? That has nothing with blindly trusting NGC or poorly choosing the coin. The holders are becoming more important than the coins. That’s his complaint.

 

Real question...
Do the grades given to the higher end coins seem to be graded more conservatively/accurately, or much the same discrepancy as the low to midland coins ?

 

By “high-end” do you mean “high-grade” or “high-value”?

 

High value.5-6 digit coins

 

On the high priced coins, both services tend to be more conservative, but you can't take that to the bank. They can get liberal on everything now and then.

One of the factors that makes NGC coins seem more liberally graded is the crossover situation. A lot of the really good NGC graded coins get crossed to PCGS. The coins that might be "off" tend to say in the NGC holders. That squews the impression in the market.

Why do people cross so many coins to PCGS? The impression is they are worth more in that holder.

 

I am broken-hearted. There goes my wonderful weekend. lol

 

Ever wonder why those coins cost $300+1% of value to grade? They take much, MUCH longer than the average 5-7 seconds with them. This is to ensure authenticity, accuracy of the grade within the market, and to protect against liability. Now the accurate market-acceptable grade can change with the market, but it will almost certainly be consistent with what is acceptable in the market at the time of grading.

This is also why, when there is a $$$$$+ price increase in between grades, getting the grade bump is so hard. The graders pay much closer attention to it.

As an extreme example, the fourth-known 1854 S half eagle (valued at over $2 million), took NGC 2-3 weeks to authenticate. That grading bill would have been around $20K.

 

For some series of coins, this disparity is warranted. PCGS is at least 1/2 point more conservative on their grading of Jefferson Nickels, yet they are across the board more lenient with almost every strike designation, including full steps.

The grading of Morgan Dollars is much closer as are the prices, especially for the common dates and grades.

I think this is something that needs to be examined on a series by series basis, but in my experience, NGC assigns far too many premium gem grades for coins with subpar luster, and PCGS is more inconsistent in relation to surface marks. For example, look at some deeply toned NGC premium gem Washington Quarters and Franklin Halves.

 

This is why coins that get bulk graded or graded under the economy rates can be all over the place. The graders just can't spend the time on them because they are under time quotas to get the grading done.

 

Please take the time to read what John has said. I believe you are taking it wrong.

 

I can’t anymore. He had a hissyfit, and put me on ignore. That is fine—everybody is entitled to his or her opinions.

 

That's a shame. Did you notice that he never attacked you, he just gave his opinion on the topic. Hope you find the time to go back and read what you said and what he said. I understand why he put you on ignore.

 

Late to the party again due to a "tag." I don't know what coin you are writing about; however,...

Morgandude11, posted: "Then your [Doug] standards are ludicrous. An obvious gem coin is AU 58, because YOU see wear? [Actually not ludicrous. Friction wear on a coin = AU. Some can see it, some cannot, and most professional graders and successful major dealers who can see it IGNORE IT because of the value of the coin.] That is the very definition of bias, and you just don’t comprehend that. [No "bias" is involved as there is NO PREDISPOSED POINT OF VIEW (bias). Doug just graded the coin as he saw it. BTW, misusing a word is like calling an AU coin MS-68.] TPGs may have [May have? MAY HAVE? LOL, coming from you THAT IS WAT"S ACTUALLY LUDICROUS in your post.] changed their standards, but grading what YOU think is an AU coin as MS66? Nah, not a realistic statement."

 

Lehigh96, posted these coins::





All three of these coins have obvious luster breaks in the focal areas of the coin.

Each of these coins is 100% original with no trace of friction wear. NONE. luster breaks due to contact NEVER lower an MS coin to AU.

 

If my grading standards are different than yours or TPGS standards, there is no standard.
After all, doesn't "standard" basically mean "the way we do things"
Just saying....

 

Lehigh96, posted: "So what, they don’t grade those coins the same way US Coins are graded. I could easily make the argument that those knife coins are of varying quality and don’t deserve the same grade. Nice dodge though!"

Nice dodge. He made a winning argument. It is a easily demonstrated fact that in addition to Morgan dollars, a pretty patina (eye appeal) can raise the value of an item.

 

I made the winning argument that the pretty patina actually changed the condition/grade of the coin and it is that improvement in condition/grade that raised the value of the coin.