Sicily (Norman Kings): gold tari of Guglielmo I ("William the Bad"), ca. 1154-1166

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Aug 13, 2019.

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How interesting/appealing do you find this coin, whether or not you're an expert? (1=worst, 10=best)

  1. 10

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  2. 9

    5 vote(s)
    35.7%

  3. 8

    5 vote(s)
    35.7%

  4. 7

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  5. 6

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  6. 5

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  7. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  9. 2

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  10. 1

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Sicily (Norman Kings): gold tari of Guglielmo I ("William the Bad"), ca. 1154-1166
    01-Tari-frame.png
    Obverse: Kufic legend in two margins around pellet in circle.
    Reverse: Cross-tipped scepter with IC XC NIKA around field.
    Issuer: William I, King of Sicily (1154-1166).
    Specifications: Gold, 13 mm, 1.56 g.
    Grade: PCGS VF35, cert. #36461152. Purchased raw. Original earthen deposits retained.
    Reference: PCGS-690703, Spahr-82 (per Nomos AG), Fr.634 Guglielmo I (per PCGS).
    Provenance: ex-Nomos AG, Switzerland, Obolos 10 auction, Lot 603, 30 June 2018. *
    Notes: this small medieval gold coin was struck between the Second and Third Crusades, a time of great strife between Christian and Islamic kingdoms. William I was Christian, but since gold Islamic coins were such an economic staple of Europe and the Near East in the Middle Ages, many Christian rulers imitated them. This king's historical nickname of "William the Bad" might be undeserved, and the product of bias by the chronicler Hugo Falcandus.
    Comments: I find it interesting that this coin includes cross-cultural motifs: both Islamic (Kufic) script and the Eastern Christian     christogram "IC XC NIKA", which is an abbreviation for "Jesus Christ conquers".

    01-Tari-frame.png 02-Tari-Trueview.png 03-Tari-black.png 04-Tari-gradient.png 05-Tari-white.png 06-Tari-shadowbox.png 07-Tari-slab.png

    034825S
     
    lordmarcovan, Aug 13, 2019
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    I gave it a 9. Originally went with 8 just based off the pictures but I upped it to 9 after reading your write up :) I know absolutely nothing about the ruler or much about the time period to be honest. But I really like the design and am now more interested based off your write up. Cool coin and thanks for sharing!

    EDIT: I just looked up the size based off of US coin comparison. Size of a $1 gold coin. Pretty cool. I would be terrified of losing it if I had to carry it around in a bag or something like that back then lol.
     
    furryfrog02, Aug 13, 2019
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  4. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

    I would vote '9' on lordmarcovan's Sicily Guglielmo coin.

    I have a similar Crusader coin with Islamic legends:

    [​IMG]
    Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem gold Bezant
    Gold, 20 mm, 3.90 gm, struck AD 1148-1187 (similar size and weight to a US $2.50 coin)

    In 1095 when Pope Urban II launched the Crusades, gold coins had not been struck or used Europe for centuries.

    When the Crusaders arrived in the Holy Land they discovered that gold coins were used there, either Byzantine issues or coins made by the Moslem Fatimid empire in Cairo, Egypt.

    Crusaders established kingdoms in Palestine, including the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and began minting gold coins.

    These coins were copies of Moslem Fatimid coins, down to the Kufic legends promoting Islam as the true religion. The first coins were direct copies, as time went on the legends became less clear.

    In AD 1250 Pope Innocent IV (AD 1243-1254) ordered the Crusaders to stop making coins with Islamic legends and they began putting Christian legends on their coins.

    An odd reason for wanting a coin, but after reading Harold Lamb's books on the Crusades, I had to get one.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    willieboyd2, Aug 13, 2019
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  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Indeed! I wonder if somebody found it with a metal detector. It certainly came out of the ground, as evidenced by the earthen deposits on it, which I liked. In fact, if you look really closely, you can see one white micro-pebble (grain of quartzite sand, perhaps) still adhering beneath the right bar of the cross. Detecting in Sicily would probably be fascinating, but is probably illegal, I guess. Maybe this came up in an archaeological dig.

    The small size is what kept it relatively affordable. Small gold is about all I can do nowadays.

    @willieboyd2's gold bezant is bigger and more valuable. I was just tickled to be able to find such a cool medieval gold piece for so relatively little (i.e., just a hair under $300 before slabbing). Usually you can't touch medieval gold for under $500-600++.
     
    lordmarcovan, Aug 15, 2019
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  6. WashQuartJesse

    WashQuartJesse Member Supporter

    I voted it an 8 but may have gone w/ a 9, given the dirt! The Norman story is very fascinating. I'm somewhat familiar w/ the history so this may be more appealing for me.

    There's a Curiosity Stream (subscription programming like HBO, etc...) series dedicated to the Normans and a full episode on what brought them to Sicily, how they "conquered" it, and how they ruled it. Was definitely worth watching imho.
     
    WashQuartJesse, Aug 15, 2019
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  7. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I would give it a 9:) These coins are really historically significant.
     
    panzerman, Aug 25, 2019
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  8. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I'm with @furryfrog02 9 after reading the description. Very cool!
     
    Seattlite86, Aug 25, 2019
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