In the reiterating Investment topic, Longnine009 referred to "mainstream" collecting as opposed to "topicals." I think that intuitively, we might all think that we understand what that means, but if you stop to weigh it out, it loses some definition. Coin boards ("Whitman" style, not websites) go back to the 1930s. Forty or fifty years ago, when the statistical median agers were kids, they could fill much of a Lincoln Cent or Buffalo Nickel board from pocket change and buy the few semi-keys from allowance or yardwork or paper route money, dreaming of the keys, which they might have bought before cars and girls interrupted their collecting. We tend to see Late 19th and Early 20th Century U.S. Type fractional and minor coins (50-cent pieces down to cents), as the "mainstream." I am not sure that this makes sense any more -- it might not have made sense for over 20 years. First of all, this board in particular, but many others as well, have an international audience. Buffalo Nickels are not in the mainstream of collecting for people in the U.K. or Finland. We have a global hobby. In those other places, there must have been some similar "mainstream" in the previous generation. They have (to quote an Americanism) "gone the way of the buffalo." In America, when collecting exploded and imploded about 1980, there were already many ways to assemble sets and many kinds of sets to consider. VAMs were invented. (Van Allen and Mallis, authors of the standard book on Morgan Dollar Mistakes that seem collectible.) Bankwrapped Rolls became a hot item. There is still a tendency to assemble sets by Date and Mintmark. Collecting by topic seemed more appropriate to stamp collectors, philately being about a generation ahead of numismatics. (It certainly melted down sooner in the wake of phony commemoratives.) However, over the last few years, I have seen more and more numismatic collectors drawn to topics. "Topic" is a pretty broad term. It is easy to think in terms of ships, planes, insects, flowers, etc., as the subject on a coin. However, Roger deWardt Lane has an electronic presentation (Web and CD) called "Brother Can You Spare a Dime?" (www.geocities.com/dewardt/brother.html) about "dime size coins of the world." Even back in the 1970s, there were American collectors of crowns and half-crowns, the large dollar-size silver coins of the world. I read about collectors who pursue the smallest coins in the world, either by diameter or denomination. So, those are other "topics." We tend to segregate coins from banknotes from medals. However, my interest in aviation encompasses all of them as a single topic -- and to them I add cancelled covers, postcards, etc. (I have a postcard cancelled both ways on the Hindenberg, for instance.) I wrote this up for StudentPilot.Com as "Your Personal Aviation Museum: Collectibles as Historical Evidence." (http://www.studentpilot.com/articles/aviation_articles/article.php?aviation_id=121) So, what, if anything, is the "mainstream" of numismatics?
Hi Mike, Nice article. I always enjoy reading your stuff. What is "mainstream" collecting? I'm not sure I know. LOL From what I gather lately, it might be high mintage, high grade, TPG statehood quarters.
Hi Mike, Interesting question, but to me I have a very simple answer. To be in the mainstream in anything not just coins is to be "in the current thought, influence or an activity" to be involved in "to be in the prevelant attitudes, values and practices of a current group or a society at the time". To be involved in the current trend and/or attitude at the current time. So if you take what Jody526 says, collecting state quarters falls under what I would call one of the "mainstream" in todays coin collecting world. It is the "current prevailing attitude & thoughts of millions of collectors today in our society to collect them-- I would also agree that collecting say a set of coins in very high grades is probably a mainstream thought of many in our hobby- cisco
States quarters and all other moderns are most assuredly not yet in the mainstream of the hobby. When was the last time you saw someone bashing bust halfs or Morgan dollars? This goes on with the moderns endlessly. Certainly modern collectors now outnumber "mainstream" collectors and more coins are involved, but the bulk of the money in the hobby is still traded between collectors and dealers of old coins. It is Morgans which constitute the bedrock of collecting. It is the early coins that are most avidly chased with the largest amounts of money and those who collect in these arenas still hold all the modern coins at arm's lenght. As more dealers come to service these markets and more articles appear about moderns in the numismatic press then one can say that they have become mainstream.
You can find the Army or an army forming by finding the sutlers--TPG. There are not many things that start out as mainstream. Most anything considered mainstream by the press and public started out as a "freak" on the fringe, made fun of an ridiculed. Henry Ford must've been considered a lunatic back in 1900's. Is there anything more "mainstream" today than a Hump-back station wagon? In coins you can see the progress of how things go from the fringe towards mainstream right now with Errors. These were considered "freaks" back in the 60's. They were laughed at and made fun of. But they have been steadily working towards the center, towards mainstream, and receive more respect today than ever. As well as attention from the sutlers.
I think before you can define the mainstream of coin collecting - you must first define what constitutes a coin collector. And that definition will depend entirely on who you ask. The reason I say that is this - it has been estimated that there are approx 100 million people collecting SQ's. Now ya can't get any more mainstream than that. But if you ask a person who collects only pre-20th century coins - those folks are not collectors at all. But if you ask one of those 100 million - many of them will say yes, they are collectors. And how about all the kids, and adults, who are only collecting coins from circulation ? Do they fall not within the definition of a collector just because they are only collecting modern coins ? I think many of them would be insulted for someone to say they do not. Personally I wouldn't blame them. It has been estimated many times in the numismatic press that there are perhaps less than 100,000 coin collectors in the US. But I have yet to ever see them define a collector. Some say that number is based on the subscription numbers of numismatic magazines. But Coin World alone has approx 80,000 subscribers. I think the 100k number is waaaaaay low. A short time ago we even had a discussion here on CT about what defines a collector. But based on the most commonly accepted definitions - I myself do not qualify as a collector. But I beg to disagree with that Personally, I favor a very loose definition for who is or who is not a collector. And because of that I think the number of those who collect modern coins or even just SQ's are collectors. And with that being said they far outnumber those who do not collect moderns. Which of course means they ARE the mainstream.
WHY oh WHY do we have to classify and name everything we do today. Put everything into its own little neat package and assign a special title and I.D. number... then we are happy! It really don't make me any different than I was 50 years ago with this "thing" we call coin collecting. I'm extreamely happy when I'm involved in the process, and really don't care what any one calls It! So, you whippersnappers go right ahead and spend your time figuring out what this and that are called. In the nean time I'll be collecting coins, new and old, and having fun.
(I love the quote!) Errors are a perfect example of how the so-called "mainstream" changes with time. I recently bought Heaton's MINT MARKS from 1893. Back then, no one cared about Branch Mint coins per se. It was still over 15 years before collecting by Mint mark tended toward the mainstream, first with the 1909-S VDB. Even so, it was not until the invention of the coin board in the 1930s that Date and Mint sets became standard. That continues even today, of course. Communication is more rapid now, but you have to step back and realize that forty years intervened between Heaton's booklet and the arrive of coin boards. As you note, Errors go back to the 1960s, and here we are 40 years later. One difference is that you can collect almost any series by date and Mint mark, French francs, German 5 marks, etc., etc. (Some nations have just one mint. Date and Mint mark is mostly irrelevant to tokens and totally irrelevant to medals, though it can apply to banknotes, as with the US Federal Reserve. I suppose that "Nationals" would be a greatly expanded version of that.) On the other hand, we do not yet tend to collect a broad range of numismatic items by Error. On the other other hand, some people do just that. My point in starting the thread is to see if there is indeed any "mainstream." Perhaps there is not.
Then "coins on TV" would be the mainstream. Coin World audits and publishes its subscription number. (Krause does not publish numbers, though they probably have them audited for their own purposes.) CW finds that (1) there is little overlap with Krause readers: it tends to be either-or; and (2) there is nearly complete overlap with ANA membership; the overwhelming number of CW subscribers are ANA members also. So, CW's subscription numbers are the low side of the correct guess. Add a few percent for Krause readers; add a few more for ANA members who are not CW subscribers; you get about 100,000. Perhaps there are only two questions that need be asked to cull the goats from the sheep: (1) Who was James Longacre or (2) How many shillings in a pound. If you cannot answer either of those, you are not a collector of numismatic artifacts. (That is an excluse either-or, not inclusive. However, a true collector of U.S. items could easily find in a reference on their own shelf the answer to (2), just as a European could easily look up (1) if they do not know.)
Wow! What a contrary opinion! It seems so far from the mainstream. Is not classifying and numbering and neatly packaging specifically what we do? Collect this or that as you will, Old Dan, but do you throw them all in a big box without regard? I think not. I will bet that even if you have your "junk drawer" -- and I have mine -- you still spend a lot of time classifying and numbering and neatly packaging the objects you collect.
That would good test indeed. Perhaps though just the desire to know the answer would be enough to set them apart from non collectors? I know people who are stashing away state quarters. People who I know are not and don't want to be coin collectors. They're stashing coins in baggies because all they can really lose money wise is .00000001% interest per year. But they seem to believe they're gonna hit the coin lotto with a major error. If you asked them how many shillings are in pound you'd just get a glazed look from them. Hey GrandMaster "D" it's really feels good be called a whipper-snapper again. I knew taking all that Vitamin C was gonna pay off "...An’ then somebody grabbed me, threw me outta my chair Said before you can eat, you gotta dance like Fred Astaire.." "...I did a two-step, quick-step and a bossanova A little Victor Sylvester and a Rudy Valentino You should have seen me moving Right across the floor Hand me down my tuxedo Next week I'm coming back for more..." Long Tall Glasses Leo Sayer I bet that old man Doug can't dance like that anymore.
I think I have a problem - we have one organized drawer, and a 'junk house'.... I knew I was going about it all wrong... now how do I get all this stuff into one drawer?
Mainstream to me is whatever i decide it should be on any particular day, many a true word spoke in jest. Honestly the term is pretty fluid and mainstream tends to follow the fashion of the time. Which leads me on to state that whatever mainstream is at any time it most assuredly does not involve me. Fashion me? I've been swimming against* it for the past 20 years, why follow it now? *Actually since i'm so awkward that should be swimming sideways to it with fashion approaching on my right.
