The value of toning

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Timely post. I was just going to ask what is numismatic value to toning. At what point is it tarnish vs. toning, or is that up to the individual? What causes the toning and do folks purposely tone their coins to increase value? If so, what do they do?

 

I know there a number of threads on toning, but I think the reason why they command top prices is that it is nature's way of "painting" coins. Of course, under natural conditions it takes years.

The same could be said for carbon that is squeezed over time to form diamonds.

 

To paraphrase a question my mother used to ask, "Doug, do you have to jump off a cliff just because all the other lemmings are doing it" (Poor Marianne. )

Tarnish is surface damage caused by chemical interaction between the coin and its environment, such as contact with the sulpher content of some paper and cardboard, heat, and a multitude of other factors. When it happens to a zinc coin it's called corrosion.

Some do. They are (not so affectionately) called "Coin Doctors".

Use artificial means to induce harmful chemical interaction between the coin and its environment - rumored to include baking, storing in a closed environment with sulpher matchheads, and other equally evil and destructive tactics.

Except when it's the coin doctor who does the "painting". (That's more like making cubic zirconium. )

 

I'm not abig fan of toning... yes tarnishing.

I like grey tones, but as soon as any other colour starts creeping in (especially pink/red), i run for the exit. Red is a vile colour at the best of times, not particularly fond of pink either but it's better than red. Don't like green much either.

Blue tones i can live with.

 

Bring back the good 'ol days. Not to give away my age, but I remember "a few" years ago when you would go to shows, the dealers seemed happy when they "dumped" their toned coins on you. I have always liked the appearance of a finely toned silver dollar so when I would spot a nice example, we would talk price. I don't ever remember turning one down. They seemed to be more than happy to be getting rid of it and would lower the price till you agreed.

My how times have changed. Now when you ask about a toned coin, by the price, you would think it was super rare red kryptonite or not so rare green on a slow day. I had one dealer refuse to even talk about a price on his toned silver Eagle. He said it was so rare that if he sold it he may never see another one, called it a "display only" piece. It seems that coin type, date, rarity and grade all got out the window when it's got some "color" to it.

If you like toned coins, just be careful. There's many ways to artificially tone silver and I've seen several examples in cases for sale that lets just say "weren't natural".

 

I've heard a couple of collecters talk about "artificial" toning. Is it easy to tell the difference?

 

You know me GD... I'm never one to shy away from stating if i like something or not. Probably a little too blunt at times, runs in the family.

As it stands now, toning is something i avoid, like i avoid slabs. It probably will change, depends which way the tide is going... gotta always make sure i'm swimming against it regardless of the direction.

 

Sometimes.

Part of the problem is definition. If I put some Mercury dimes in a Whitman album when they were new (and I was very young), and then put the album away until last week, the coins would be heavily tarnished. Most folks would consider it "natural" because it was the result of environmental exposure that was not intentionally designed to cause the tarnish. Another example of "nature" tarnish is the discoloration of the end coins on one side, and the edges of the others, after being wrapped for years.

On the other hand, if last month I took some blast white Morgans, put them in an envelope I had coated with a paste made from match heads, and baked them in an oven with a pan of water, they too would be badly tarnished. However, most folks would consider it "artificial" because it was deliberately caused by exposure to abnormal environmental conditions.

But, what if I just put them in some kraft paper envelopes, and put the envelopes in a safe for a year without any dessicant; all without knowing that the paper had a high sulpher content, or that the humidity in the safe's closed environment would get very high?

Personally, I think many so-called "toning experts" are wrong a significant percentage of the time when they pontificate that a particular coin's tarnish is "natural" or "AT" simply because of the unknowability factor retlating to the owner's intent.

 

Natural toning = A coin that has toned by the test of time on its own without the intentional assistance of any person.

Artificial toning = A coin that has been toned by use of heat, chemicals, storage tricks, etc. to intentionally mislead a potential buyer or increase the value.

I guess the emphasis is on "intentional" when I refer to a coin as atificially toned. Pretty much the same practice as "weathering" metal reproductions (signs, weather vanes, cans, etc.) to make them appear as "antiques".

 

The only thing I like about a naturally toned coin is--

(supposedly)

 

Boy, I'll say I remember as that was one of the things that you and I seen eye to eye on. But you know what? As time goes on, I have developed a real liking for old "honey" toned silver coins. So I guess in the long run, we still see eye to eye. Maybe that is what makes you so loveable!

 

From this buyer's point of view, there's a two-edged sword when buying toned coins which I like very much. First, with so many who don't like toned coins, that's less competition for any particular coin. But, this is counter-balanced by those who DO like them and are willing to pay premium prices for a toned coin thereby forcing me to bid even higher. However, I've got some very pretty toned Morgans from which I don't plan to part for a long time.

Further, I would never buy a raw toned coin. I am not anywhere near skillful enough to differentiate between natural and artificial toning; slabbed only and then only by NGC, PCGS, or ANACS (I'm not sure about ICG).

Not tarnish; nature's artwork.

 

(In the voice of Homer Simpson)

Ooooooooooo,.... toned coins!

Toned coins are goooood!!

Toned coins are purrty!!!

Ahhhhhhhhh,.. toned coins.

 

Ooooooooooo...those 1913 and 1937 Buffalo's are sure Purrty, as you would say. If I had those, I might be able to sing almost as well as you. Keep up the good work partner, it's been lonesone around here without you.

 

As someone else said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you like toned coins, own them. If you don't like them, don't.

It doesn't really matter, however, how a coin got to be the way it is. It is what it is. We do not need to know the intent or psychological makeup of the owner while the coin was toning, or whether it took 5 years or 5 minutes to get that way.

The only thing which determines the value of a coin in a particular state is supply and demand -- how many are available, and how many are sought.

Some value things which are handmade more than they value things which are machine made. Some value aged, faded, and broken things much more than their repaired counterparts. Some like things because of their provenance much more than their physical condition.

It's all in your head.

 

Maybe it doesn't matter to you or those who would prefer a blast white coin, but it certainly does matter to the majority of us who do enjoy what nature or collector folly has brought about. Most of us abhor the "coin doctor", but more of you have dipped a silver coin than will ever own up to it.

I've got to wonder,... which one is "the only thing"? Supply and demand, how many are available or how many are sought? What about perception, desire, emotional purchases or bragging rights?? Perhaps there's more than one thing that effects value, eh?

I've news for you. Life,... is all in your head.