Case Study: 1938-S PCGS MS68+ "FB" Dime $364,250 - Everything that is Wrong with Our Hobby

P.S. I know a young numismatist who was on the losing end of something like this in past. A subsequent owner upgrades it, it stickers, and then is sold for thousands more... What does that do for our hobby as a whole? It is discouraging and can turn people away permanently.

 

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If professional coin graders who have been doing this for decades can't consistently get it right, why would the average collector be held to a different standard? This isn't the case of an obviously under graded coin that finally ended up correctly graded. Even CAC didn't seem to think it was a lock 68 the first time much less the 68+ it now resides in.

I'm all for collector education - don't get me wrong. I agree 100% with you on that front, but I think collectors and dealers, even very knowledgeable ones, could have been blindsided by this one and a lot of the others that I am seeing with increasing frequency.

 

It's much like when somebody cherry picks a coin from a seller. The buyer of the coin capitalizes on something that the seller missed. Happens, regrettably, but it is part of the game we sometimes play. If one can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. And with that my friend adios, and good evening. Sleepy time beckons. Thank you for a lively conversation.......

 

A cherry pick is slightly different. There the seller didn’t know what they had. With inconsistent grading, one can know they have a 68, send it in multiple times, and never get the 68 grade. Then someone else buys it as a 67 and gets the upgrade.

 

Interesting I get edited for no reason by the “mod squad” yet irrelevant personal trolling attacks such as this are left alone. Anyways back on to ignore for the trolltikeers.

Just one of many examples.

 

What’s wrong with this picture: The coin got a green CAC sticker at 67 plus and another green sticker at 68 plus.

Logic says a gold sticker should have been issued at 67 plus. Am I right?

Makes no difference. Some buyer got screwed on this deal.

 

Some people will tell you that it takes a coin being undergraded by two points to get the gold.

But the quote I've read is this:
What kind of coin gets a CAC gold sticker? CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”
https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/mysterious-cac-gold-stickers.html

So if that holds, you are correct in saying the coin could have been given the gold.

The way I've seen it "explained" for such cases is that the coin was an "A" coin for a 67 and a "B" coin for a 68 (meaning it just stickered at the next grade as opposed to being "easily" stickered).

What I'm really interested in knowing is did the coin fail to sticker as an NGC 67? That would be even more telling.

 

Everyone really did including the two sellers at $3k and $750 as well as the terminal buyer at $364k. I think the coin is worth much more than $3k (generic 68s are going for ~$5k+) but much less than $364k. The only people that benefited from this are the crack out artist (likely a large dealer), PCGS and CAC who "earned" fees from its multiple conflicting opinions and of course Legend. That's how the hobby really works: small dealers and collectors are screwed over royally and rich coin dealers and the grading services make out like bandits. With the quick changes in grading the only ones who can truly keep up are the ultra rich elite dealers who can afford to submit thousands of coins a month. It truly is sickening.

 

It reminds me of a guy on the CU forums that posted about Franklins. He had some nice ones that just wouldn't upgrade or upgraded but looked maxed out to him. Later he found that many of them upgraded after he sold.
Do you recall that thread?

 

I do, and that particular poster is an expert in the series. I seem to recall that CAC contacted him when establishing their standards for the series. It is funny that if you go to a major coin show many of the regulars quickly know who the graders and finalizer are that day. That information should be guarded so as to prevent cherry picking at least.

 

Found it! If anyone wants to see the Franklin thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discu...ins-is-why-i-stopped-collecting-the-series/p1

 

I find all these examples to be disturbing, to say the least.

 

Agreed. But hey the exposé should be fun to read.

 

Good read.

 

And sometimes they're too lazy to find out what they have........

 

True, but when you submit 4-5 times to no avail and then after selling it to a large dealer it miraculously upgrades within a month, it leaves a very bitter taste in your mouth.

 

This has happened to me several times . . . .

 

I have to ask. Does anyone know that the coin really did sell, to a Human that can be identified ? As you write all the other BS that is happening here, main reason i cant get into this stuff to deep.

Back to point, maybe it really didnt sell and just PRETEND sale in house. I doubt anyone rich enough to buy that coin would be that gullible. I could see the scammers out there getting really brilliant and setting a very high SOLD price on it.

Then they would come back in 6 months, maybe a year and claim the poor old man that bought it has now passed on. His precious daughter or family members just want to get what they can and are willing to settle for 30 - 40K... Even at that price someone would have to be foolish to spend without full on checks and balances.

I guess you could call it a double scam or setup scam... Those guys are street smart, NYC, Northern Jersey slime ball mafia type and figure if someone is dumb enough, so be it.

 

Politics and Greed... The Buddy System and it is exactly what has happened over the course of the last 40 years. Not what you know but....

Just wonder how much the appeal is lost when the dollar loses reserve currency status or is wiped away all together. Happened to many other Fiats in the past and will happen in this country too. That should have an effect...
Not one that will sit well around here I fear.

 

Legend isn't a scammer neither is their auction house. The buyer is even publicly known..........