NGC Partners with Ebay for Expert Review Of Ancient Coins

When is this service scheduled to begin?

 

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I was thinking differently: perhaps we should charge $5 for our opinions on photos.

 

This service sounds like a really dumb protection racket to me.

How often do ebay sellers post pictures of the edges of coins? Almost never. Isn't it crucial to see the edges to really authenticate a coin?

 

This type of system (on line evaluations and authentications) was attempted back 15 or so years ago by a company named "eppraisal.com". Service provided - for a price - for only collectables (Civil War memorabilia; weapons; artwork; autographs; …. and such). It fell flat on it's face because - even back then - online photos were able to be doctored and then submitted to the company.

"eppraisal.com" is now showing as a company offering real estate appraisals... not sure if it is the same company.

 

EXACTLY. This 'step in the right direction' is a joke. It's a raised middle finger to the community meant to make them even more money and which will accomplish precisely zero for getting rid of the bad apples. In fact, now it is actively in their interest to ensure there's enough fakes to merit the service.

A few years ago I wrote their VP of sales with an analysis of the problem and how they stood to benefit by hiring experts to vet the coins being posted for sale. Their response? [crickets]

Rasiel

 

I disagree. Ebay is not a coin dealership and they are not coin experts. They provide an auction platform. Period. The rest is up to the market. I would not expect Ebay to hire their own coin experts to authenticate coin listings any more than I would expect the landlord of a brick-and-morter coin shop to do so. Why on earth would they assume liability for authentication when there are 3rd parties that specialize in this type of service? To be honest, I think this proposed NGC solution sounds elegant. Your proposal would result in higher overhead costs for all buyers, while this solution only costs those that want the help. Whether it functions well, time will tell.

The one thing that bothers me (also pointed-out by others above) is that there's no limit on how many requests can be processed for each coin listed. Thus NGC may say "likely genuine" to 100 bidders for the same coin at $5 each. That seems like a windfall for NCG, given that they are only "on the hook" to the successful buyer. EDIT: Thinking further about this, I suspect NGC could only offer such low, $5 pricing with this potential upside built into the equation. Most likely, the number of requests on average listings will rarely exceed 1 or 2.

 

Why on earth? Haven't you been watching the news? The argument "we're just a platform" has been bandied about like a shield by different venues, especially social media, since day one and each year that shield breaks down a little more. By ebay picking a service - one and only one service - they're implicitly acknowledging that there's a potential you could get burned if you forgo that service. That's a conflict of interest because they're making money, ostensibly, to allay your fears as a customer while at the same time adding a revenue channel that depends on forgeries being posted to merit there being such a service in the first place!

Ebay already employs legions of employees to take down inappropriate listings. Adding literally a couple more to weed out the fakes results in a more trustworthy venue which encourages more participation and fewer grumbles from newbies later learning that the Pertinax they scored for $50 was, in fact, made in a Bulgarian garage a couple of weeks before.

The real problem are the fake sellers. A pay-for authentication service doesn't do jack to fix this.

Rasiel

 

You are assumming that Ebay would do nothing against a seller that's regularly having coins condemned by NGC. This 3rd party authentication process may be a step to Ebay banishing notorious sellers. In any case, having a readily available and cheap expert available to to opine on a coin might indeed help inexpert buyers walk away from fakes. It's simply risk and cost allocation to have NGC make the call rather than an Ebay employee. I presume Ebay will delist a coin that's condemned through this system.

 

I used Catawiki to buy some coins in the past. All auctions are curated by “experts”. I do not know what are their background in numismatic. To be honest, I saw some forgeries slipping in some ancient coins auctions there. But I never found ‘notorious fake sellers’ on that platform. I think they only check the pictures and don’t have the coins in hand. What do they do if they spot a fake coin ? I don’t have the answer, but I’m sure it’s a safer place to buy compare to ebay. I hope it will change with the help of NGC.

 

"elegant" What are you smoking Carausius?

I'll trust my own eyes over NGC any day!

 

Elegant because I don't have to pay higher Ebay fees to prevent inexpert buyers from getting burned by blatant fakes. Instead, those buyers can chose to cheaply protect themselves. Those who need the help pay the fee.

 

I think this is a great idea. Most of the fakes on eBay can be spotted from a mile away so it'll be an easy revenue stream for NGC and will prevent people from becoming disillusioned with the hobby.

 

@AncientJoe yep totally agree with you. How many times have we heard of enthusiastic collectors buy a bunch of ancients or US or world and then show them off here to be told that the coins they bought are fake? They become disillusioned and leave the hobby. I've seen it on the PCGS forum where some guy bought a bunch of indian head pennies only to find the majority were all cleaned and lost a lot of money. This fairly cheap service can be used by newer collectors to help them, for the advanced collector, yes as well when it comes to a very rare raw coin. Doesn't a member here own a coin with the Colosseum image? Supposedly only a few in existence? If this coin was on a ebay auction wouldn't you want Vagi, Barry Murphy, or whoever NGC assigns to look and give you a heads up on if its legit or not for only $5?

 

Rereading this thread, I just realized that I had misunderstood what was being offered. The coins will not be openly flagged as real or not but those paying $5 can get the opinion like we give here for free but from someone who has a clue about whether the coin is real or not. I do admit it would be interesting to know how many people will pay $5 for the service.

I agree but do wish that NGC and eBay could work together to come down on regular posters of fake coins.

 

Perhaps eBay will eventually send all ancient coins through a cursory NGC check prior to listing to improve their perception. It's a minefield at the moment and it would go a long way to make it a real competitor to VCoins (which, admittedly, would also benefit by a $5 NGC second opinion).

I happen to be the member with the Colosseum sestertius - I agree that an extra pair of eyes certainly can't hurt. I've seen a fair number of obviously fake Colosseum sestertii sell on eBay for >$1K. If someone is willing/able to spend even $100 on a coin, I'd think they'd very willingly click a button for an extra, third party validation. That said, eBay wouldn't be my first choice of a sales venue

 

I would like to remind you all that these are opinions of Photos. I'd like to see these company's start to put out a service of Authenticity, and let the coin tell us the story.

Tired of the dumb down game the Company's as proven play with the values.

I would like for the company's to give the power back to the collector, to adjudicate the price. Just give us a Gem, Bu, Ch. It would be nice to see a plus that puts it in the plus three grades.

Oh yeah I am on the ancients thread.

Way better than an evaluation of a Photo.