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I just got an email about this. It is so absolutely ridiculous that I can't believe NGC is stooping so low. Shameful.

Next they'll offer to make guesses on Cointalk GTGs for $3 a post.....

 

Great minds think alike?

 

Paul, you’re supposed to submit the coin after purchase for it to receive a final grade. Also, there’s a grade opinion. I gave it a try and the coin I selected was supposed to be “likely authentic, likely Details grade”. Two other advanced collectors agreed with NGCs assessment. I don’t know what happens if NGC says it’s “likely authentic” but then it turns out not to be. But we’ve recently seen Seated coinage in PCGS slabs, so what’s worse?

 

Why? You’re in the US market where 95% of all coins are graded and those which aren’t are usually problem coins. In Europe, most coins are raw, even gold or rare coins. I believe I can tell if a 1952-D 5 Mark (Germanic Museum) is authentic or not, but I won’t be able to make a call for other types. So why not get an expert’s opinion? It can’t hurt getting another opinion before purchasing a raw coin, even though it’s based on pictures. By the way, we’re (trying to) GTG here on CT every single day... isn’t it ridiculous too?

 

The grade opinion is so wide that it really comes off as a joke. Paying someone to tell you a coin is Likely a grade of 1-35? Are you kidding me? The next grade is 40-58, then 60+ or likely inconclusive. The vast majority of even the newest collectors can group things into grade ranges that wide and anyone who can't even do that needs to stick to only graded coins

That's really not true at all. Many of the top value coins are graded but not even close to 95% are graded other than maybe if you limit to million dollar plus coins.

 

I exaggerated to make a point. Is it 65% ? 75% ? Does it matter? You can find graded examples of virtually any US coin.

By the way, if this was a new PCGS service you’d be the first one to call this the “best thing since sliced bread”.

 

I made it perfectly clear in the other thread that I thought this was a waste of money and hope that none of the other services follow along. Edit - please don't call people names, thanks - Mod Team

 

I used this yesterday at a coin that I was considering bidding on. The $10 option.

They replied back the next day with a determination that I took as a Not Uncirculated coin as it was being sold as. And that it would most likely receive a grade of AU.

To be honest, I appreciated their response and found myself reviewing the picture's that had been provided with a more scrutiny.

So I'll most likely use it on occasion

 

I agree.

 

Gonna grade photos now HuH?
This teeters to the stupid side of dangerous. Good thing PCGS didn't think of it first.

 

Lol what a joke. I didn’t call anyone any names. I must have forgotten that people are allowed to incessantly troll me and personally attack me on this website even when they admit it and nothing is done yet when I point it out I get edited. I literally stated the obvious and things that many others have even stated more strongly than I yet he still decided to take shots at me but that’s okay because it’s me right?

What a joke

 

This is exactly what this service offers, helping average collectors purchase things they before were too timid to do. I honestly see this service more as a tool to help people realize their purchases are bad ones.

 

Please support this "fact" with evidence. Of course, in writing this, you get to subjectively quantify what you meant by "many" and also what you meant by "top value" and have thus created a fact that is true simply because you set up your own parameters. This is why everyone gets frustrated with you, all you do is throw out garbage "facts" to attack people for their opinions.

 

How about a 10 minute intermission.

 

What are you talking about? His point was valid. Micbraun threw out the 95% number and baseball correctly refuted that number while acknowledging that the higher the price of the coin, the higher likelihood that it is graded. He was basically saying that at some price level the 95% is probably true but that in totality, nowhere near 95% of US coins are graded. Your post is at best nitpicking and at worst, trolling.

Let’s see if my post also gets edited by the apparently new and anonymous “mod squad!”

 

With what evidence? With what qualifiers? All he said was “no it’s not” and suddenly that makes him correct? He used vague wording like “many”. This allows him to skate around actual numbers and simply use his own subjective definition. If he’s going to call someone for hyperbole and being imprecise, he better not turn around and do the exact same thing. He’s provided nothing but an “I disagree with you” statement. I’ve asked for facts, since he claims to use them. Where are they?

 

Determining the number of coins that are graded is always a “best guess” scenario. There are no statistics for things like this and you know it. Why are you asking him for facts? Why don’t you just simply provide these “facts” to discredit him? The answer is that you don’t have the answers either, nobody does. That said, it is reasonable to conclude based on the number of coins graded vs the number of coins minted that the percentage of US coins certified is nowhere near 95%. Baseball pointed this out to Micbraun who quickly retreated from his hyperbolic number.

So yes, saying the 95% is wrong, does in fact make him correct. And he’s under no obligation to provide you or anyone else factual evidence to prove his assertion; anyone with any common sense at all would know he is right.

Furthermore, he used the word “many” to describe the high end coins because he understands that the percentage of $100K coins that are graded is much higher than the percentage of $100 coins. It was a hedge so that when he disputed the 95% number that nobody could come back at him and say “what about the ultra rarities?” It had nothing to do with him trying to skate around anything.

Here is my question to you. What percent of US coins are graded? And remember, any number you give me better be supported by facts (your rules).

 

Let's say that I tell you something random is a "fact" but don't tell you where I learned said "fact". You then you question me if it's true. Instead of me providing you support to my claim, I turn around and tell you that YOU must now prove ME wrong, and that if you can't, I'm correct. I've now shifted the burden of proof for MY own claim to you. I can literally make any claim and as long as you can't prove me wrong, it must be right. That's called an argument from ignorance logical fallacy.

Why am I asking him for facts? Because he made a claim that included statistics and hard numbers. Baseball often throws out a claim without evidence and expects it to be taken at face value. In this instance, Baseball has simply contradicted micbraun, but had not proven him wrong. I've simply asked Baseball to demonstrate this claim "Many of the top value coins are graded but not even close to 95% are graded other than maybe if you limit to million dollar plus coins" Please note that he used million dollar plus, not $100K. Perhaps he was also using hyperbole, but he needs to be called out on it just as readily as micbraun did.

And I'm not making any rules up (ridiculous accusation), nor have I made any claims that require me to support. Baseball failed to do much beyond contradicting micbraun with his own opinion, which he attempts to pass off as facts.

Now, if you're done wasting my time, and pretending to speak for baseball, I'm waiting for @baseball21 to show me proof of his claim, or admit that it's merely his opinion, or that he was being hyperbolic. Edit: or he simply could've said micbraun cannot support his own claim and that it's unlikely to be true, vs claiming his numbers about million dollar plus to be true.