Did I finally bag one? Shapur I

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Clavdivs, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    I have been looking for a "bargain" example of a coin of Shapur I for about a year.. even posted it in the "Want List" section of CoinTalk many months back but no luck.
    I really wanted to pair one with my modest Valerian sestertius to add to my collection.

    When I show my Valerian coin .. even though it is very worn and not nearly as nice as many others I own, every non-collector seems fascinated (as am I) with Valerian's capture and the many stories describing his ultimate fate. Many find it one of the most interesting coins in my (limited) collection.

    Having a coin of Shapur I to pair with it will add to the story and really be a nice little highlight to my collection.
    His coins in any condition seem to be quite expensive .. I have been watching and waiting.

    This one cost me $50 on eBay. I knew the risk and investigated as much as I could - but without owning any Sasanian coins or literature, I did my best through internet searches, reading what I could, etc.

    Anyway, a guarantee came with the coin so I took the chance. Anything in this condition looks to go for triple this price on VCoins.

    I know it is chipped, maybe clipped and very worn but I do like it very much.

    Please let me know what you think.. I appreciate any feedback. Please show your better examples of Shapur I or Valerian!

    ShapurMERGE.jpg

    Sasanian Empire Shapur I, 240-270 AD, AR Drachm; chipped.

    Weight: 2.83 grams

    Diameter: 28 mm

    Poor Valerian:

    ValerianMERGE.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Your Valerian has a nice portrait style despite the wear. That's probably why we like it so much. By contrast, my Valerian is one of the ugliest coins I own...but it was so dirt cheap I couldn't say no. It was one of those that one isn't looking for but it comes up and the price is too good to just let go.

    Valerian I.jpg


    I won't comment about Shapur because I don't collect Parthian/Sassanian coins. It looks really beautiful but I really don't know much about them.
     
  4. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Nice coin! Yes - I do like the portrait on my Valerian... rough coin but the portrait looks like some middle aged guy you'd have a good conversation with at the pub!
     
  5. Agricantus

    Agricantus Allium aflatunense

    The drachm weight should be 4gm (or a bit more), hemidrachm around 2gm. 2.83gm is way off for any of them, even chipped. The details on the obverse are mushy. So, I have a bad feeling about the coin. I am not an expert, though, I just went through a Sassanian enthusiasm phase.
     
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  6. Agricantus

    Agricantus Allium aflatunense

    And here's a coin from my collection, 4.28gm

    6DB99261-F240-46FC-9B03-A5ED6B823531.jpeg
    Photo courtesy of CNG.
     
  7. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    I thank you for your reply. I do not have the coin in hand as of yet so have not verified the size and weight (just quoting the listing)... but appreciate your information. I will certainly investigate.. I hope others here express their opinion as well..
     
  8. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    I would like to contact the seller ASAP on this weight issue as I am quite concerned. Does anyone else share concerns about this coin? Thank you.
     
  9. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Shapur I:

    Sellwood12ShapurI10174.jpg
    Sellwood 12. 26-25 mm. 4.18 grams.

    Sellwood14ShapurI9137.jpg

    Sellwood 14. 23 mm (Distinctly smaller in diameter) 4.11 grams (similar weight).

    I'd like some Sasanian experts to weigh in (pun), but I think the original post coin looks legit, in spite of its low weight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  10. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    While I am not able to weigh in on the question of genuine or not - I can share a Shapur-Valerian pair.
    [​IMG]
    Šābuhr (Shahpur) I "the Great", AD 240-272. AR drachm
    Obv: Bust of Shapur right, wearing diadem and mural crown with with korymbos and earflaps
    Rev: Fire altar flanked by two attendants (probably both the king as attendant of the fire), each wearing diadem and mural crowns.
    Ref: SNS type IIc/1a, style E, Group a
    Size: 23.9-24.2mm 4.15g

    Although a well worn and weathered coin - still a favorite.
    [​IMG]
    Valerian I, Sestertius, 253-254, Rome
    Obv: IMP C P LIC VALERIANV PF AVG; Valerian I, laureate head right
    Rev: FELICITAS AVGG / S C, Felicitas standing left holding caduceus and cornucopia
    Size: 23.5-26.2mm 15.2g
     
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nice job @Clavdivs ! Super fun capturing critical junctures of Hstory into your collection.

    I kinda took a counter-approach to getting my Shapur I, by swimming upstream to capture an AE version rather than an AR version. I noticed that not too many Sasanian AE's were out there, and they seemed a little harder to find.

    upload_2019-7-8_5-49-24.png
    Sasanian Shapur I 240-272 CE AE Tetradrachm 10.78g 27mm Ctesiphon mint phase 1a mural crown korymbos - fire altar type 2 SNS IIa1-1a


    RI Valerian I 253-260 CE AR Ant Felicitas stndg Caduceus and Cornucopia.jpg
    RI Valerian I 253-260 CE AR Ant Felicitas stndg Caduceus and Cornucopia
     
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  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    3.9g
    oa0520bb1856.jpg

    Victory? Really?
    rp1530bb0770.jpg

    Probably the best antoninianus for the purpose is the Valerian reverse bragging of his successes in the orient. RESTITVTORIENTVS - I also enjoy the coins that us the OR to end the first word and start the second. Several emperors did this.
    rp1505bb3128.jpg
     
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  13. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Those are two very nice coins! Hopefully the weight is a typeo and the drachm weighs 3.83g.

    Shapur I made, IMO, the most beautiful Sassanian coins and I'd even place it in my top 25 favorite designs of antiquity.

    Shapur i drachm.jpg

    Valerian I is interesting, in that no two coins of his ever seem to depict him the same way, except perhaps for the sestertii. He was in his fifties when he was emperor, yet his portraiture seems to show a man anywhere between his mid-20's and 80s.

    Despite the worn reverse die, I chose this Valerian for the portrait style
    Valerian Fides Militvm.jpg

    And random question @Sulla80 - I can't help but shake the feeling that I have seen that Shapur before... Did you by chance buy it off of eBay last year?
     
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  14. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I think you may have overpaid, mine was an Ebay win for less than $50. Was very excited to win it.

    [​IMG]
    Shapur I (241-272 A.D.)
    AR drachm
    O: Bust of Shapur I right, wearing diadem and decorated tiara terminating in eagle head.
    R: Fire altar flanked by two attendants wearing diadems and mural crowns.
    25mm
    4.33g
    Göbl type I/1
     
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  15. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Really nice coin! I am not worried about the price.. it was what I could afford.
    I have sent the seller a note asking him to re-weigh the coin.
    Will go from there...

    Is there anything about the style that is off?
     
  16. Agricantus

    Agricantus Allium aflatunense

    Maybe Finn235 is right and it’s 3.83. I would take it to a place that has a suitable scale (pharmacy?) to address the weight concern.
     
  17. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    I don't think I've ever seen a cast of one of these Parthian and Sassanians. They make cast forgeries of these? I would have thought with how thin the coins are that making a modern fake die would be a lot easier.
     
  18. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    The vast majority on acsearch are 4g +/- 0.5g, but this one (sold by Spink) is only 3.07g:
    Screen Shot 2019-07-08 at 10.43.27 AM.jpg
    It's porous, like the OP coin; quite a bit of metal could have leached out. The flan is more complete than the OP coin. So assuming this Spink coin is genuine, it's possible the OP coin could be genuine even at 2.83g.
     
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  19. Nvb

    Nvb Well-Known Member

    SASANIAN KINGS. Šābuhr (Shahpur) I
    [​IMG]
    AD 240-272. AR Drachm (27mm, 4.36 g, 3h). Mint VIII (“Susa”?). Phase 1b, circa AD 244-252/3. Bust right, wearing diadem and mural crown with korymbos and earflaps / Fire altar; flanked by two attendants wearing mural crowns. SNS type IIc/1a, style K and pl. 27, A28 and A29 (same dies); Sunrise –. VF, areas of toning
    Weight 4.36g
    Diameter 27mm
     
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  20. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Very nice, and great price. Congrats Clavdivs.
     
  21. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Yes - you may have seen it on EBay and I posted on CT earlier too.
     
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