What do you do?

I was wondering on this a bit, and I was wondering what y'all would do in a case like this. On another board, someone listed a 64 Kennedy proof for sale, and it looks like the accented hair variety, for a little over melt. What do you do?

Inform the seller on it.

Buy it, and don't say anything?

I know there is cherry-picking, like at a dealers. That I don't see a prob with, cause I feel a dealer should know what they are selling. But here, I don't know if the person is a beginner, or a seasoned expert (along those lines). I know this subject has come up before, but I guess can be discussed again. (and please don't turn this into a hungry poor senior citizen thread) All thoughts and comments welcome (just keep 'em on subject. )

Phoenix

 

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Knowledge is a "double edged sword" if you are unaware it can cut you pretty deep!

In other words Grasshopper:

Advantage is a professional game! Be smarter than the other to Win!

Go buy that coin!!


RickieB

 

I guess it would depend on who it was - on ebay I would not say anything. At the dealers I use they would probably already know, but again I would cherry pick if the opportunity presented itself. If he listed the proof at a price that the seller is happy with then buy it. Of course I did not you said "looks like", so I assume you are not really sure yet. Besides that what type of premium are you talking about? I do not collect kennedy halves.

 

On a board like this one I would say something at least to identify the variety. This is more about education then buying something from a seller in an open market scenario.

That having been said on a board such as Wheresgeorge I would buy because they generally set up a bidding sale where people that know the value can bring the price up to a more accurate value.

 

For the accented hiar variety, did you look at all the spots where you know that it's accented.
The 'I' in liberty, the hair of course, the 'G' in FG of the initials and the stripes on the reverse going through the stars.

Greg

PS: Don't tell him!! Just pretend like you never saw the variety and he will not lose sleep over it and you will not either (unless you stay up all night marvelling at it!!)!! Buy the coin!

Greglax

 

I dont see why you should mention anything to the seller. I mean isnt that part of the hunt. I have bought coins at shows and mentioned to the seller this is a variety and they didnt seem to care. So just keep it to yourself. Again IMHO its part of the hunt.

But with that said. If you happen to know the seller very well. You might want to tell them. But if this some one you dont know. Then why bother say anything .There is always a chance your wrong.

 

I agree with Oldman, if you don't know the seller don't tell...

 

I gotta go with Oldman as well.

Unless the seller is a good friend of mine I'm not telling.

There can be instances where telling is the best thing to do though. I used to trade Kennedy Half rolls with a guy out East. He had a hard time getting D rolls. I located some for him for trade. He offered me a roll of 86P for a common roll of D coins.
He obviously had a good supply of 86P but was unaware of what those go for.
I told him. He thanked me for being honest and went on with the trade.
Eventually I ended up with 2 rolls. Got about $50 invested in them but the honesty paid off big time. One roll will fetch $100 all day.

Other than a good friend or an active trading partner I'd go for it.

 

That is called cherrypicking!

 

If it is an auction, there is no need to say anything because the bidding should take care of the seller's lack of knowledge. If it isn't an auction, the RIGHT thing to do is tell the seller if he is a beginner and not a dealer.

 

Think about what you'd hope (and please note, I said "hope", not "expect") someone else would do if you were in the seller's shoes. Also, think about how you will feel if you provide the information to the seller rather than taking advantage of him/her. Then, the answer should be easy.

 

The major benefit of a poll like this is to expose the fact that about 90% of collectors and dealers will not give you fair value for a coin if given the chance, and will probably not give you an honest opinion about a coin's value, no matter how friendly they seem. [I'm talking about situations where the other person is a potential buyer or seller.] Keep in mind when you are selling a coin that it is basically a confrontational economic transaction against an opponent, not a hobby.

 

If it were a friend or close acquaintance, who may not know, I would tell, but otherwise I wouldn't

 

In most cases I would ask the person to check it out---and say....if you still want to sell it....I'll take it.

Now as with everything--I think it is a case by case thing that you must look at. Sometimes it might be wrong just to say nothing, and other times there is no "cents" in saying anything and you just cherrypicked a great item!

Now---if someone is selling a coin and I think that they have under-graded it, I'm not as likely to say anything. Grading is an art and I could be dead wrong. If I pull out ahead then that is good...if I don't....I got what I've paid for. I've had this happen both ways to me and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Speedy

 

I would tend to just buy it without discussion. It is case by case. If someone has come to help. I will tell them. If they then want to sell it to me, they will have a better idea, but I will still want to buy it as cheaply as possibly

One feels more need to be forth coming if someone is coming for help on a coin as they have made it clear from the start they are in need of info and dont know values, they just know I have one just like it so I might be a good person to ask. On the whole, you need to know what you are selling.

 

Anything moral or ethical in nature is always on a case by case basis. If a dealer, then...if a new collector, then...if a table at a show, then... There are a lot of "ifs" involved.

However, this particular situation involves a collector's board much like this one here.

So, this situation would pretext that we would be dealing with a collector. On any board, you have the "pros" as well as the "newbies" and sometimes you can tell who is what, and sometimes you cannot. Irregardless, none of us knows everything. Some of us have extensive knowledge in varied numismatic subjects and/or series, others have a more rounded general knowledge of coins, and yet others have very little or absolutely no knowledge of coins except for the fact they're round! And then these people *really* have an eye opener when they go to the dark side and find coins ranging in shape from square to triangle to hexagonal to guitar-shaped!!

The point is, even a well seasoned collector may not be educated in a particular series, variety, or type of error. And the purpose of boards like these are primarily for education and building "bonds", just like any coin club.

That said, I would treat the situation as I would if dealing with this person face to face at a club meeting. Remember, although you are only a handle on the internet, you still have a reputation. Would you suspect a variety, and not tell the person face to face if offered the coin in person? Would you risk your reputation, both as a person as well as a numismatist, to "cherrypick"? Would you pass up the opportunity to pass on some knowledge to someone that may be lacking in an area which you may have extensive knowledge or even possibly expertise?

I would most definitely inform the seller of the possibility that the coin may be a variety, and even instruct him/her how to diagnose the coin. But, I would also inquire if the person wanted to complete the transaction at the asked price if it was indeed a variety. The person may or may not want to do so if the variety is verified. But, at least you passed on some knowledge and knowhow, and your reputation will grow and precede you.

Reputation is something that cannot necessarily be bought, and is very hard to repair when damaged. You never know who may be watching your actions or who you may interact with on the internet.

 

Way I see it, just as it's the buyer's responsibility to know what he's buying, it's also the seller's responsibility to know what he's selling. Some people just don't know or care about the varieties... do you fee guilty about cherrypicking a given variety from a huge lot?

If your conscience bothers you that much, feel free to pay more, nobody's stopping you. I personally wouldn't see it as taking unfair advantage of the seller... I'm not lying to him about what it's worth, he's telling me what he thinks it's worth, to him... and if it's worth more to me than to him, so be it. If someone is selling something for more than you think it's worth, do you bother telling them then? No, you just don't buy it. I don't see how it's any more or less ethical the other way around.

If it's an extreme case, like someone selling a rare genuine coin for a dollar, perhaps then I'd feel the need to speak up, if I wanted to buy it for close to what it's worth... else it's not really my business. Variety values though are so subjective... a given variety is worth more to those with a signficant interest in it than to those who don't know or care about variety attribution... in that case I'd just stay out of it.

 

If the seller is going to sell coins whether on Ebay or anywhere else he/she should absolutely know without a doubt what he/she is selling. Unfortunately, this is probably not the case with alot of the sellers on Ebay. Thats too bad though, his loss. I'd buy the coin.

 

well, the can of worms opens.

what is the right thing to do?

what do you want done to you? a numismatist of certain reputation wrote in his coin world article aboout how he purchased a coin for $50 which was worth $10,000 and then wrote this in his column.
i guess i don't care if i offend anyone as i answer to no one but God. believe what you will.


would it have been so terribly wrong for me to offer to split the consigner half for noticing his or her special variety of coin? it certainly changes the outcome of the auction and allows for even the auctioneer to make more money, as well as both the 'buyer" and consigner to get much more than a fair price.

yes, good for you, you had more info than the other person and could make so much more money. you make $100k a yr. the other person consigning it, who has either inherited it, or just has lack of knowledge, has never made more than 20k/yr.

even if you don't know them and their income..what is right? what do you want done to you or someone you love?



sorry for my rants, but it absolutely breaks my heart when someone "gets over" over the uniformed or are scammed, ect..

more people leave this hobby w/ such bitterness because of lowballed when forced to sell, or just insulted over grading, cleaned coins, and many other similar reasons. especially a hobby where all can get involved (everyone likes money for some reason). this hobby should be for everyone and how much profit is enough???

i hate to be a wank, but it is better for all of us when we can just do the right thing, regardless of the situation we are in.

once again, this is only my opinion. you are the only one who has to live w/ yourself.
my vent is over for now....steve

 

Buy it and once you get it then let them know what is it! Unless you think they got a lot more of them (buy them all).

People look for that stuff all the time in our books but you know my feeling? It makes people happy when they find something that we miss and it makes them come back and purchase more when they find something for nothing. Nothing wrong with it.