I recently took a class, taught by Brian Silliman (current NGC grader) at the phoenix national money show in march. I met GDMSP(sp?) at the show, the admin of this forum. I wanted to say thanks for the time we had, had fun.I learned alot from it, but sometimes I still have doubts about myself. The show at the time gave me alot of self confidence, as I was able to spot most of the depressions on all of the counterfeit gold coins I got to look at. I learned that depressions have luster/metal flow in them, and blend in with the surrounding area of the coin, where as a bagmark is shiny around where the bagmark is. I have 2 questions. First, how can you tell the difference between a depression on a geniune mint made coin (mint made depressions) and on a counterfeit depression coin? Second, I've had this 1900 gold british sovereign for awhile. It's in a PCGS AU58 holder. I bought it as MS, but it didn't make the grade. I was told these are often counterfeited. Well I found what appears to be a mint made depression, or a bagmark. I can't tell. I looked at it under my loupe, and with the attached image on a microscope. If you look at the bottom of the depression/bagmark you'll notice it is slightly shiny. I think this means it IS a bagmark. What do you think?
Looks like a scratch or bag mark to me. Think about it - this scratch/bag mark is in the field. This part of the die is flat and is the highest part of the die. If the die made this depression it would mean this spot would have to be raised on the die. That's not very likely because this part of the die is polished (sanded) and anything sticking up would be ground away.
Thanks Hobo. Not quite sure what you mean, you've got me confused.:hammer: Are you saying that when the mint makes dies, it usually heavily polishes the dies?
I believe your trying to distinguish between a bag mark and a "circulating scratch" on this coin. Bag marks are acceptable damage to MS coins where scratches would infer that the coin had been pocketed an thus no longer a MS coin. Your coin appears to have a scratch. If you view a lot of MS coins and see a lot of various bag marks you will notice that this mark is uncommon to those, IMO. When it comes to counterfeit coins I have no experience and certainly no expertise with them. How ever I would suggest you study, if you already haven't, the process of minting coins. Knowing how dies are made and how metal flows into the dies under the pressure of the strike will enlightened you on why coins appear they way they do. I have some knowledge of metallurgy as a Machinist so I see coins in a much different light. Good Luck and Keep On Collecting!!! Allen
Yes, the mint polishes the dies. But what he is telling you is that a depression on the die results in a raised spot on the coin. A raised spot on the die results in a depression on the coin. And since the mark on your coin is in the field and it is a depression, for the die to have caused it, it would have had to have been a raised sopt on the die. But a raised spot on the die, in that location and that large, would have been very unlikely since that area of the die would have been polished when the die was made. The hit or mark on the sovereign, and it is a hit or mark, was done after the coin left the mint. The coin is quite genuine.
Well Ruben, if New York was within a single day's driving distance - maybe I would. But since it's clear across the country .........
