What do y'all think of my new $6700 "Business Strike" (cough cough) Washington?

In this tier. Did NGC charge this as a common coin or did they hit the sending dealer with extra charges because if the value associated.
Ya all no me, I like my coins raw.
Not something I have to deal with.
If they charged extra because of value.
Then are only going to change the label isn't there some kind of fraud or liability on their part?

 

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Since the submitter was a coin shop I'm not familiar with, I can't answer that. I bought the coin from a collector who sent some coins in thru the shop's membership. For all I know, the shop charged him full boat plus insurance and processing and shipping. If NGC upped the charge due to the coin's value, they may have eaten that cost or charged the collector more. I just don't know. But in my experience with this sort of situation once with PCGS, where they incorrectly attributed a $50 coin as a $4000 coin, I called them up and they not only fixed the holder for free, and paid for shipping, they also refunded my original grading and attribution fees.

 

I was talking to a dealer about 1884 and 1885 3 Cent Nickels, and he said it is basically a crap shoot at PCGS for them to grade proof or business strike. He had personally submitted the same coins (!) multiple times the ensure that he was selling a properly-attributed coin, and they flip-flopped each time. He eventually gave up and left them in their (far more-valuable) business-strike holders.

 

This was just a mech error. It was just a case of grabbing the wrong drop down in a database. Send it in and it can be corrected at no charge. If you want to send it to my attention I’ll make sure it gets done the same day. I’m in the ancient department but can walk it through myself.

Barry Murphy.

 

Can become a pretty expensive mech error for someone buying it and not knowing any better.

 

Putting on my usability/UI design/task-analysis professional cap for a moment:

If "grabbing the wrong drop down" can result in someone paying $2000 or $6000 for a $25 coin, perhaps this part of your workflow software should use something other than a drop-down selector. Picking "MS" instead of "PF" is an extremely consequential mistake; it shouldn't be trivially easy to make.

 

It does. But there are humans involved so mistakes occasionally happen, even with several places where it could have been caught. 7500-12000 coins get processed each day. A mistake is bound to happen occasionally.

Barry Murphy

 

From a collector perspective, the TPG view that mechanical errors are “no big deal” is a huge problem. IIRC correctly, one of the original goals of the TPGs was to facilitate confidence in buying graded coins sight unseen. It’s really hard to achieve that confidence if they can’t even get the method of manufacture correct on the label.

 

Okay, which is it? Was it a simple wrong drop-down, or was it several people not paying attention to their work, or both?

Look, I'm currently working in the pharmaceuticals industry. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that mistakes for us are even more consequential than they are for a TPG.

If a medication goes out with an unblinded label instead of a blinded one, it can invalidate a multi-million dollar clinical trial; if the wrong medication goes out, it can kill people. "A mistake is bound to happen occasionally", as you say, but we have some very carefully-thought-out processes in place to make sure that they DO NOT make it out the door. If we didn't, it could easily put our company (5000+ employees) out of business -- and certain kinds of mistakes could put individual corporate officers and employees IN PRISON. HIPAA violations, in particular, can slice right through that old "corporate veil".

The stakes for a TPG obviously aren't nearly as high. But for your customers, getting told that their $6000 sight-unseen coin is actually a mislabeled $25 coin, and they have no recourse, is kind of a big deal. If a reputable TPG slab says "this coin is certified to be what it says on the label -- unless we made a mistake, in which case LOL J/K"... well, how long is that TPG going to stay "reputable"?

I understand your position on mechanical errors; if you guaranteed them the same way you guarantee non-"mechanical" grading errors (if there even are errors you can't claim as "mechanical" at this point), each of those errors could potentially cost you thousands of dollars.

But just saying "humans make mistakes when handling 10k coins per day" is a cop-out. If your business processes can't support your current level of traffic, you need to improve your business processes, train your people better, hire more people, or reduce your level of traffic. If you can't do any of the first three, sooner or later the market will help you out with the fourth one.

 

I like PCGS’s stance on mechanical errors for grades. If it is more than two levels off (such as XF-40 when it should be VF-30, or MS-66 when it should be MS-64), then it is a mechanical error and not covered by the guarantee.

Is this the sarcastic emoji?

Very eloquent.

 

Why exactly do you keep trying to drag PCGS into a very specific thread about an NGC coin and how they are handling it?

PCGS has a history of dealing with the situations differently whether you are the initial submitter, or a collector that bought it in the aftermarket, or a dealer. The situational facts also matter. They've actually gone after initial dealer submitters before as well who took advantage. Regardless this thread has nothing to do with PCGS

 

Well if the guy clicking on the drop down box has sausage fingers..... i guess it could be considered a mechanical error

 

I’m guessing that many folks involved in the process you described get paid a whole lot more than NGC.

Humans do make mistakes (remember that lander that crashed on Mars due to English vs Metric?). And I’m sure if NGC doubled their fees and hired more folks they could reduce their error rate even more.

 

It's even worse when they use the mechanical error clause to avoid payouts on overgraded coins as PCGS has already publicly done. Two-three point swings are not as uncommon as you think especially with toned coins.

 

Mother Laura would be so disappointed in you Baseball. It's always about PCGS and CAC. The coin world completely orbits around these companies, so it always comes back to them. Does anything else really matter?

 

So what's your CU poster name again? Why the constant trolling style attacks under an alt? At least have the courage to be in the open about it or troll someone else

I have a feeling you'll be on my blocked list before long

 

It is not an alt. This is my only Coin Talk account.

 

Didn't ask about your CT names, what's your CU name?

 

Didn't you know. You are better off taking two deep breaths.
Anyone as feeble minded as us that engage Ms/Mr know it all is only a troll.
How dare you speak to the all knowing.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Find someone else to incessantly troll.