Strange punchmark on Nero

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by josephrg, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. josephrg

    josephrg Member

    I am not sure why someone would put the AU letters on this Nero coin. I am wondering if the coin looks genuine or is it a reproduction. When I purchased the coin on ebay about 5 years ago I believed it was a genuine coin that had been by ruined someone but maybe someone knows why this has been done. thanks Joseph 20130120_nerodefaced.jpg 20130120_nerodefacedreverse.jpg
     
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Well, I think we can all agree it doesn't stand for "about uncirculated."

    Very weird. I suspect it's genuine but defaced.
     
    ominus1 likes this.
  4. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    The punchmark is definitely modern. I've always heard rumors that some old collectors more than a century ago used to put their initials on coins they owned. Perhaps that was the case here? If true, it's pretty selfish, but whose to say what someone out there may do.

    What I can confirm I've seen is a few old coins with a tiny paper tag with the collectors' initials on it glued to the reverse of the coins. That I can confirm for sure. It's a lot less destructive than a punchmark, and I bet most have been removed by now by subsequent collectors.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
    NOS likes this.
  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    "A__________ University"?

    It is not unheard of for museums and universities to mark their collections in some damaging manner.
     
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  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Similar to the defacement on a coin I was gifted by another CT member:
    IVSTITIA_Stamped_a-removebg.png
    LIVIA AE Dupondius
    OBVERSE: IVSTITIA, draped bust of Livia as Justitia right, wearing stephane
    REVERSE: IMP T CAES DIVI VESP F AVG REST, around large SC
    Restoration issue under Titus.
    Rome, AD 80-81
    9.9g, 27mm
    Cohen 9, RIC II 424 (Titus), BMC 289 (Titus), Komnick 15
    Modern stamp, 7 over 36 on obverse
     
  7. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Here, Marc Breitsprecher is selling this coin with an old tag glued to the reverse. This is the type of stuff I've seen on rare occasions before, tags glued to the reverse of coins. I suspect this was a more common sight many decades ago, before more modern collectors decided to remove them.

    Unlike punchmarks which are permanent, at least this has a chance of being undone. I don't know why a collector would have chosen a punchmark over gluing a small tag to the reverse....but then again, with my modern collecting mentality I don't understand either method.

    43616.jpg
     
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    There is one type of owner-applied damage I'd love to have... anything with the inlaid silver Gonzaga countermark. Here's an example from a Kunker auction:

    [​IMG]
    Lot 1121. MÜNZEN AUS DER WELT DER ANTIKE
    RÖMISCHE MÜNZEN
    MÜNZEN DER RÖMISCHEN KAISERZEIT
    Septimius Severus, 193-211
    Æ-Sesterz, 193, Rom; 23,64 g. Kopf r. mit Lorbeerkranz, im Feld ovale Sammlermarke: Adler//LEG-XII[II GE] MMV Legionsadler zwischen zwei Standarten, im Abschnitt TR P COS, im Feld S-C. BMC 471; Coh. 275; RIC 652.
    R Im Feld des Averses Sammlermarke der Familie Gonzaga, sehr schön
    Die Sammlermarke wurde vermutlich im 16. Jahrhundert auf den Münzen der Sammlung der in Mantua regierenden Familie Gonzaga angebracht. Im Verlauf des Mantuanischen Erbfolgekrieges wurde die Sammlung zerstreut. Siehe zur Zuweisung und Datierung der Sammlermarke auch Simonetta/Riva in Quaderni Ticinesi VIII (1979), S. 359 ff.

    More info about the Gonzaga countermark can be see in this from a CNG listing. Until relatively recently the mark was thought to be from the d'Este family. These inlaid countermarks were applied in the 1400s. Cool!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  9. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    The 500-year provenance is great and I definitely wouldn't turn one down, but if I have to decide between two identical coins, and everything else is equal, I'd rather have one without the 500 year-old mark.
     
  10. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Wonderful Nero coin! Sure looks legit to me. Just some @$$ umpire making the coin much more affordable.
    I've always felt this "R", that is labeled a bankers Mark, looks modern to me. But why and where???

    060CA06A-4C6A-496D-8B76-75BEA26017EF.png
     
  11. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Well, if you get a Gonzaga, please get in touch and we can arrange a mutually beneficial trade. :D
     
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  12. R*L

    R*L Well-Known Member

    Not mine, but just spotted on eBay, and thought of this post, although it looks hand carved rather than some kind of stamp, so I suspect it's simply graffiti rather than a collection mark?

    Anyway, MG aside, it's not my area of collecting so if you spot and want it, don't feel constrained about bidding for my sake!
    MG.png

    Vespasian AE Sestertius. IMP CAES VESPASIAN AVG P M TR P P P COS III: Head of Vespasian, laureate, right. ROMA S C: Roma, helmeted, in military dress, standing right, holding Victory on extended right hand and vertical spear in left. RIC II 190.
     
    chrsmat71 and Roman Collector like this.
  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    That's quite unusual, and interesting. The sans-serif font is definitely modern, though, as mentioned.
     
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Do you have the price realized for that sale? I am a famous cheapskate but would easily pay $2000 for the Gonzaga Septimius legionary sestertius. I suspect $5000 would be closer. I don't know of any reference listing all of the known Gonzaga coins but I suggest you need at least two to demonstrate the fact that the silver coins received a gold stamp. I recall seeing one sold where the foil had fallen off making a really defective bargain basement example probably not worth double the same coin that belonged to a 1400's collector who did not stamp his coins.

    My offering here is a Messembria diobol with modern circular stamp with points at top and bottom and the letter H. I read this H as the Cyrillic N and always worried that the coin had been market Nyet for no good. I was the only bidder in CNG 45 where it was well described to a clientele who would have nothing to do with such a damaged coin. I never did fit in with that crowd. I do suspect that Tsar Nicholas would have had a fancier N so this was some lesser Russian but I sure would love to know who and where the rest of his coins are today.
    g30890bb1668.jpg

    I have other paint numbered coins but my best is the Germanicus dupondius.
    rb0985fd2626.jpg
    While I would never paint on my coins, I briefly considered kicking my coin 47 out of its place held for 33 years so this coin could be my 47. The kid's mother pointed out she was my number 46 but I was not sure I wanted to appear to be showing favoritism to a Julio-Claudian like Antonia even if correcting family separation seemed like the right thing to do.
    My 46 (no paint):
    rb0980b00046lg.jpg
     
  15. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Well then... I'm sorry you missed this one! Hammer was 1400 EUR, 7 Oct 2013.
     
  16. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

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