Civil War Token Combination?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by StevenHarden, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    Hello All.

    I have been going through several of my Civil War tokens and found an unusual piece.

    Side #1 has the well-known Carl Haas name that has been recut and shifted to the right, all above a rabbit in the center and shows 493 Vine Street below.

    Side #2 however is not the standard reverse die that should be with the Carl Haas obverse, but is actually another Civil war token issue obverse. This side is the obverse for J. F. Resta Sausage Maker.

    Both of these locations are listed under Cincinnati, Ohio. Side #1 appears to be CWT #165BJ-2a (listed as R2), and Side #2 appears to be CWT #165EU-1a (listed as R5).

    Russell Rulau's book on U.S. Tokens shows that both of these tokens have plain edges and are composed of Copper. This piece has a plain edge and is also Copper.

    I have checked for any tooling marks where someone may have cut the two pieces in half and fused them together, but do not see any such markings. This piece appears to be original in all ways.

    Any information on what this token might be considered, how an error would result in a piece like this, what value this may have, how it might grade, etc. would be greatly appreciated and encouraged.

    Here are some images of the item in question.

    Side#1
    CWT_side1.jpg
    Side#2 CWT_side2.jpg

    Thank You.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  3. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    I should also mention that this has the standard diameter and weight of Civil War tokens of this type. Once again, any help or discussion is greatly appreciated and encouraged.
     
  4. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    If you are going to get into Civil War tokens in a big way, you really should get the new store card book. There is also the classic work by George and Melvin Fuld. The Rulau book Civil War section is really inadequate in my opinion. The subject of Civil War tokens is a huge one, and it can not be covered in those amount of pages

    I am away from my library so I can’t help you with this muling at this time. Maybe in a few days.
     
  5. ken454

    ken454 Well-Known Member

    ugh...tiny print..:wideyed:
     
  6. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

  7. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    So this is considered to be a “mule” Civil War token? Does anyone know what the rarity of this die combination is? Not sure if anyone has a reference book that details this kind of item. As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
     
  8. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Listed as OH165EU-9a R10 in Fuld's 1975 2nd edition of U.S. Civil War Store Cards. The rarity may have been updated since then
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  9. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    I did some further research on this piece and happened upon the following website:
    https://www.civilwartokens.com/auction46.pdf

    Lot #325 has the following description:
    OH165BJ-27a R10 NGC AU58 BN Or a bit better with 20% Red. Carl Haas, Cincinnati obverse muled with J. F. Resta Sausage Maker, Cincinnati Ohio obverse. Unique two merchant mule one with Bunny Rabbit pictured. From the Steve Tanenbaum collection earlier Herman Aqua and William Fayerweather so noted on NGC's holder. Called OH165EU-9a, possibly a proposed attributing that was change to alphabetical in the Store Card 3rd edition. (750-1000)

    The above Steve Hayden Mail Bid Sale #46 closed on April 22, 2018. I am curious to know how this ended up doing in the auction, so I may contact them to see if they will release the auction result for this lot.

    From Steve Hayden's auction listing, it appears that Fuld's 3rd edition shows this as an R10. Considering this is another example, that would surely change the rarity from R10 to at least R9.

    I will likely send this in for authentication and grading by NGC. If anyone wants to venture a guess on how this might grade or have any further information on this piece, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thank You.
     
  10. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I am willing to say low to mid AU.
    How was this previously stored?
     
  11. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    This was originally stapled into a cardboard 2x2 and listed simply as being the Carl Haas token. If I were to venture to guess, it was in that holder for 40+ years. I have been going through all of those items, removing them from whatever old holders they may be in, placing them into new holders with new information (updated #'s, pricing, grades, etc.) and trying to standardize my collection. I was not even looking for anything like this as I was going through the tokens, but when I came upon this one it was definitely a surprise.
     
  12. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Can you take better photos of the high/shiny areas both Obv. and Rev.
    That was actually my question. Are the high points actually intoned, or is it wear?
     
  13. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    Here are some other photos I have of this item. From what I can tell, there is no wear, but intoning/luster. These photos may not be the best detail, but I tried to get a variety. Any comments would help. Thank you.
    IMAGE #1
    Side1_det1.JPG
    Side2_det1.JPG
    IMAGE #2
    Side1_det2.jpg
    Side2_det2.jpg
    IMAGE #3
    Side1_det3.jpg
    Side2_det3.jpg
     
  14. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    These still give me the feeling that NGC would grade the coin AU.
    The high points look like they have rub. The slight halo/change of color in the fields, are usually a given for circulation.
    @johnmilton has seen and sent more if these CWT's than I have. I hope he chimes in on the grade.
     
  15. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I would say that it is an AU with some red on it. The fields around the rabbit look to be flat with no mint luster. The reverse is more brown, and might have been struck with a rusty or worn die. Given the rarity, this might have been a contemporary collectors’ strike and not a token that was made for use during the Civil War. There are a number of such pieces in the series.
     
  16. StevenHarden

    StevenHarden Well-Known Member

    I agree with you on an AU grade with some red on it. The piece that Steve Hayden had for sell in the auction I listed above from the Steve Tannebaum and Herman Aqua and William Fayerweather collections was graded by NGC as AU58BN, but Steve Hayden noted "or a bit better with 20% red". The piece I have does not appear to have quite as much red left, but I would consider 10%-15% remaining on the Carl Haas side, and even less on the J.F. Resta side.

    Also, what do you mean by a "contemporary collectors' strike"?
     
  17. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Back during the Civil War and for a few years after it, pieces that are considered to be Civil War tokens were made for collectors of that period. The tokens were made in different metals (know as “off metals”), and dies that had previously not been previously paired, even dies from different die makers, were combined to make rare collector tokens. I don’t care for most of these pieces, but there are many collectors who like them. They are often willing to pay strong prices for these pieces.
     
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