Is My 1898 Chinese Kiangnan Dragon Dollar Real?

I picked this up yesterday at an estate sale hoping it may be real. I have very little experience in dealing with them, so I'm seeking advice if I should send it in to be graded, or if it's obviously a fake and I shouldn't waste my money.

Weight wise it's okay and it's not magnetic. I don't see any bumps indicating it's been cast. All looks pretty good to my novice eye, in fact it looks suspiciously too good. The doubling on the letters match those nearly exactly as shown on the NGC website (see side-by-side comparison). The eyes on my dragon are worn more than the rest of the coin, particularly when comparing to how pristines the dots around the edge look.

What do you think?

 

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The letters in your closeup look quite different from NGC's, even disregarding the die wear on the NGC example.

The denticles on yours look really inconsistent around the entire circumference of the coin, both on the obverse and reverse. On the obverse, see how they're distinct dots separate from the rim at 1-2 o'clock, but merge with the rim and nearly disappear at 8 o'clock?

I know nothing about this series, so I don't know whether a legitimate coin could show these variations. But they're common giveaways for fakes in the series I do know.

 

I see some rather interesting die similarities with your coin and the NGC coin, such as what appears to be an extra serif after the C in MACE, as well as light doubling on CAN of CANDAREENS. Although some similarities exist, a counterfeiter could make a counterfeit die with a genuine coin and therefore show the same features on a fake coin. Although, I neither am an expert of this coin therefore I cannot give you a fully conclusive answer. I will say that the "branch" of the A in MACE on the NGC coin curves upwards while on your coin it is straight, I am unsure if this is due to die wear on the NGC example or just a die variation. That's all I can contribute, I'll leave it to the experts!

 

What is the weight of the coin and can you show a photo of the edge?

 

send it in to NGC/PCGS. The chinese are making these out of silver now as well so magnet won't work

 

If it was me, and if this thread still results in a hung jury, I'd go ahead and send it in, as long as I had a few other things to grade, one more might not hurt. I would also take a look at a few of the markings that appear to be Post-Mint Damage, and see if they might have really been on the coin used to create a die in the event of a counterfeit.

 

Jeff,

I attributed the inconsistent denticles to a misaligned die. Looking at pictures of verified real coins it does not seem unusual to see this. In fact my larger concern is that they're too good.

 

Thanks SorenCoins,

I see what you're saying about the A in MACE. The branch in the other A's are straight though, so I was hoping this might just be a little damage on the NGC coin. I can't say I actually see any damage though when I scrutinize the NGC dollar, so this just may be telltale sign it is a fake :-(

 

I took the coin in to work today and weighed it on two different analytical balances. They both said 27.38 grams. Technically this is slightly heavier than it should be? I've seen lots of posts about fakes not weighing enough, but nothing about them being too heavy. My optimistic thinking wants to say it was made from a thick planchet, and that's why the strike is so good. My pessimistic thinking says whats the chances of me finding it 120 years later still with such little wear on it. Is this a big red flag that it's fake? It's definitely not magnetic.

Here's a picture of the reeded edge. It looks very consistent around the edge, except for some small damage from dings.

 

Thanks all for your help. Today I compared my coin to the NGC example character-by-character and am convinced they came from the same die based upon a multitude of small similarities in the characters, but differences in damage shown on each coin. The best marker I found was the two little marks around one of the beads. It's the 5th or 6th bead from the right depending upon which picture you look at. The NGC coin is on the left, mine is on the right.

What think thee, am I nuts?

 

No, but I think you're way beyond my ability to contribute at this point. I've never bought a fake Chinese dollar, but I've never bought a real one, either...

 

I'm far from an expert but the die markers around those beads do seem very convincing and I would take it as a strong indication that they're probably legit. I'd still wait on someone more educated or just send it into NGC though. An unslabbed silver Chinese coin warrants suspicion just from that.

 

I see those marks at the beads, as well as some marks on the characters that both share the same die characteristics. At this point I would consider the two options: A) the similarities are due to a counterfeit die being made from a pre-existing, genuine coin (such as the NGC example) or B) the similarities are due to the coins both being struck from the same die, therefore it's genuine. It can be hard to tell the difference between the two, and if it was me I would send it in for certification and grading.

 

I bit the bullet and sent it in to PCGS for grading. In all, with fees, shipping, and insurance, it cost me about $90. I still think it's a long shot gamble, but never knowing for sure would kill me. If it's a fake though my hat's off to the forger. He's got skills!!!

I'll post again once I get the verdict back.

 

Good luck. will be interested to know the NGC result. Thanks for sharing~

 

Send it to NGC. PCGS world service is terrible.

 

These can be tricky.

 

Meaning they’re slow, or just bad at grading?

 

The quality of type attribution and grading for world coins specifically is much weaker at PCGS than at NGC.

If I was going to buy an expensive world coin in a PCGS slab, I would assume it is 1-2 pts overgraded and would not rule out it being a problem coin.

 

Well, if it doesn't work out then I suggest resending it in to NGC. Yes, it's deep on the pockets but it's also a rare coin if indeed genuine I believe.