Irritating auction practices

I just spent 5 minutes trying to discover the buyer's fee on the web pages of the upcoming Bertolami Fine Arts sale. Boy, do they bury it deep in the terms of sale and give it no emphasis whatsoever. (It turns out to be 20%.) It is almost like they don't want you to know. It is irritating that the fee is so hard to find!

In contrast, Heritage has the buyer's fee right there alongside the place to bid so you can't miss it. You see it, not just as a percentage, but also added in, so you will see the total you are actually bidding too. Heritage does it right.

One firm I know has a 30% buyer's fee, so the fee can make quite a difference.

Are there things that irritate you about auctions? Let us know.

 

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I have never understood the reasoning behind a buyer's fee. If an auction has one, I won't bid.

 

Almost every auction house has one. The only one I can think of off-hand that doesn't have one is Davissons, but then their starting bids are usually high.

 

It doesn't matter to me if there is a buyers fee. It won't change what my max price is. The only one it hurts is the consigner.

 

I don't do any coin auctions online from big auction sites. They are out of my price range. I just really hate the idea of having to pay an extra percentage on top of what I paid.

 

For the auctions with buyers fees/premiums, do the firms also charge the consignors a fee (percentage or flat-rate per coin)?

 

Make that two of us. I haven't gotten a coin from an auction house since late 2017. Instead I just lurk around the websites of my favorite dealers waiting on the right coin, with the right look, right price, etc. and then pounce on it. Sometimes I get lucky and find the "right coin" once or twice a month, and sometimes it's frustrating and two or three months may go by before the right coin appears...but that's pretty much what I do these days.

 

You better believe it. They get paid both ways.

 

If things keep going the way they are in a few years we will be paying more for buyer's fee than for the coin. I can remember when it used to be @ 10%.

 

That was when auctions were controlled by laws, written by politicians, who were responsive to We, the People.
Nowadays, auctions are controlled by laws, written by politicians, who are responsive to They, the Money Givers.

It's a Pay to Play system. Give politicians enough money and you can get laws passed to benefit you, also.

 

It's not my intention to defend Bertolami, but I clicked the site's terms and conditions, and it took me less than 30 seconds to scroll down about one page and find this:

Every auctioneer for which I wanted to find the buyer's fee has always listed them somewhere in their Terms and Conditions, usually in a separate clause/item. You just need to read carefully -- you can miss this if you're just skimming the text.

Although I can't vouch for this firsthand (I haven't sold any coins through auction), it's my understanding (from my dealer) that consignors may pay a fee, pay no fee, or even receive a percentage of the buyer's fee, depending on the desirability of the coin being consigned. Maybe AncientJoe can provide more specific information on this topic if it's not considered proprietary or confidential.

 

Sounds like ancient Rome. Of course we will see more of that as the influence of Christianity continues to decrease. Pluralism has a price tag.

 

Oh I think there is a price to pay either way.

 

I think that buyers recognize the full price they will be paying the auction houses - it's almost always a 15-20% premium - and incorporate it into what they will bid for a coin. If the buyers fee were to rise to, say, 50%, I can tell you that would certainly play into what I was willing to bid.

 

I sympathize, but as the proprietor of a fledgling auction business, I can tell you that I now understand it. If the coins are on consignment, there has to be some way of paying the auction house for the enormous amount of time & expense involved in listing the coins, advertising the auction, and general admin. This used to be done primarily by charging the consignor; now the norm is to primarily charge the buyer.

I agree with Valentinian that the way Heritage does it is best (I wish biddr had this feature); failing that the buyer's fee should be easily discoverable.

With reference to the OP, one thing I find irritating is when there's no indication of where the current bidding is, and you just send your bid into a black hole. Lots of time is wasted as a result.

 

We discussed buyer's fees in a recent coin club meeting. A few members buy and sell high dollar coins by auction. Seller's fees are considered negotiable for desirable items. Their comments were that the best coins can have a 0% seller's fee or even a part of buyer's fee. I suspect my coins do not fall in that category.
I buy from one auction company that charges 25%, has a 20 Euro minimum shipping and charges for credit card use. My cost in $ is often 2X the hammer in Euro or GBP. I use a spreadsheet to convert my bid to my cost and do not bid above what I will pay.

 

That is how I do it. Set up a spreadsheet with all of the cost parameters, then bid knowing what my end cost will be at each bid increment. For the coins and the odd niches I enjoy chasing, Auction costs are a reality of life. For the coins I am usually targeting, some are difficult to find at many online Sellers.

HOWEVER, sometimes I really have to "dig" to ensure I capture all the cost parameters. But, generally they are all in the Terms and Conditions.


Etruria Populonia AR 1 As 0.60g 10.0mm after 211 BCE Male Head L - Plain Rev Vecchi 3 68-70 HN Italy 181

 

Well that sounds pretty shady to me, someone oughta do something about it...

 

Another very irritating auction policy is very short time to settle invoices. I just tried timeline auctions for the first time, but did not realize they demand payment within 3 days. I am not irresponsible but a little longer period is not unreasonable. I got the invoice on Monday. Typically, I set up transfers during the weekend when I am actually home, but wouldn’t you know I got a ‘final notice’ email on Thursday bluntly stating that the invoice was overdue. Really?! Most auction houses give 1-2 weeks and won’t bug you for even longer. If you don’t pay, you get blacklisted (has not happened to me). You don’t need to be treated like some deadbeat with bills that are 90 days overdue to be motivated to pay your obligations. I was polite but I will carefully consider whether to bid in TimeLine’s auctions again! Who needs to be hassled during your leisure time.

 

That's me too!

I may miss out on coins I would like to have or a sleeper bargain, but I am OK with that.

I am very happy with my collection as it mainly consists of Ebay, Bargain Bin Ancients, Several Vcoin dealers & some collector to collector buys.