NGC Conserving and Slabbing Service

I recently saw an ad in Coin World for the new NGC-owned conservation service that offered athe following: Submit your modern Mint State or Proof coins for conservation, and we will directly submit them afterward to NGC for certification and encapsulation.

They show a clouded Proof Ike in the before picture and then the after picture, is an NGC slab with a stunning PR-69 Deep Cameo Ike (obviously the same coin) in it.

My question is this: How can they restore these coins without affecting the coins surface? and What do you all think about it? Is this the wave of the future (for better or worse) and Do you think it's a good thing?

I am interested in what you all think, cuz I certainly have my own opinions, but I'd like to know if there's some magical way of fixing coins like this without altering the surfaces before I make my final judgement.

 

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Well....any conservation is going to affect the surface to some extent. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with it, but I am curious about their methods...

 

And the nature of the crud they're removing.

Recently on this board, someone posted a "conservation of the month" - a $2.5 Libbie. It had some stuff ON the surface which has not REACTED WITH the surface. So NCS found a suitable non-oxidizing solvent and got the stuff off without damaging the surface.

Fair game.

They took an ugly coin and made it beautiful. All good.

 

NCS "conserves" coins (their terminology.)
That means they remove stuff from coin surfaces that has nothing to do with the coin's metal.
That means dirt, grease, PVC byproducts, etc.
That does NOT mean any of the coin's metal, whether original or a metal byproduct of exposure to the environment (toning, etc.)
Nor do they "fix" problems with the coin (scratches, holes, etc.)

I'm going to see what they can do.
I've got a gold coin with PVC residue on it that I'm going to send to them.
PVC won't attack gold, but as someone in here pointed out (GDJMSP I think), there is enough copper alloyed into the coin that the PVC can work on that the coin could end up pitted.

It'll take a while to go through the whole process, so maybe in 2 months I'll be able to report back to you.

 

Like a car which has been in a flood. Nothing but FULL DISCLOSURE on coins which have been conserved should be required.

Period, end of story, discussion, etc. Anything less is dishonest...

 

Thing that gets me...if I dip it, the coin comes back in a body bag. They dip it and it gets an official mint state grade.

 

I disagree.
Removing debris from a coin THAT NEVER WAS AND HAS NOT BECOME an integral part of the coin is like washing a car.
On the other hand, a car which has been flooded has sustained damage to parts that cannot be removed without changing the integrity of the vehicle (seats are no longer original, etc.)
If you wash a car prior to its sale, do you consider it dishonest to not mention that?

I disagree.
If you dip it IN AN APPROPRIATE SOLVENT to remove dirt, that has not changed a coin's surface.
All it's done is expose the surface (equivalent to washing a car.)
(I consider distilled water and acetone "appropriate solvents".)

If you dip it to remove unsightly toning, then you've changed the coin's surface, and that IS unacceptable and at best gets you an ANACS "DETAIL" slab.

 

My thoughts exactly. Full-disclosure is something you rarely get in the coin market these days as it is....think of how many coins have been dipped, submitted (to NGC and PCGS), and slabbed. There are thousands and thousands of them, I'm sure, and unless you're an expert on detecting an acetone dip (if that's even possible), you could easily buy one and never know.

 

This was one of the questions of my original post. They took a clouded Ike Dollar and show it as an after in an NGC slab at PF-69 DC. The clouded Ike does not have PVC nor any foreign material on it, but the surface of the coin has changed over time. The only way to remove it IS to alter the surface of the coin. This was MY personal problem with it.

 

Doug:
Conservation in the sense we have discussed here is not an effort to keep something in its original condition, but rather an effort to return something to it's original condition. My opinions center on the ethical question of whether or not this is proper and if there is some actual (although at this time undetectable) damage being inflicted on these coins. (I remember at one time the National Numismatic Cabinet coins were polished but we now know better.)

The skill with which the task is done is not really at issue here as much as the ethical question of should it and can we then pass these coins off with others certified (at least in the past) to be original coins. Is it totally honest? That's what I was thinking.

 

Countless coins have been dipped for various reasons, including the removal of "unsightly toning". And many, if not most of them get holdered, even by the most highly respected grading companies, and even though the coins' surfaces HAVE been affected (to various extents).

 

While I am of the opinion that NCS has improved the appearance of many coins, I also feel that they have "conserved" numerous others in a way that makes them look extremely unnatural and undesirable, not to mention, worse. I also believe that many of these coins, if cracked out of the NGC holders and submitted for grading, would either be rejected for cleaning or altered surfaces or be awarded lower grades.

 

When NGC slabs a coin that has been conserved, does it go into a different kind of holder or is there a notation indicating that it has been conserved?

 

From what I understand, both at times...

 

Here is an example of a coin which was presumably "conserved" but, due to its condition, did not receive a grade from NGC: http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170189911538

Many other coins which have been "conserved" are deemed worthy of and receive grades from NGC and no mention is made of the "conservation".

 

Here is another one which is detail graded VF, and actually attributed correctly. As you can see the label indicated that it had been improperly cleaned at some point in the past. BTW, the coin is no longer encapsulated.