Either this guy is joking...

I said your link will get yanked because YOU posted YOUR auction.....
So, I posted it also. Be prepared to lose the Paypal thing, if buyer returned with confirmation, you lose. Period.

Not fair, but the way it works

 

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Ohh right. I figured since the auction was over it didnt really matter?

Anyways, the buyer didnt return yet. He said he'd return it tomorrow... so we'll see.

 

I couldn't find the old thread here, but know we've discussed this before. Isn't he admitting in this statement to violating Ebay rules? I'm almost certain it's against their policy to have multiple people useing a single Ebay account to buy or sell.
Guy~

 

I have a belt to replace in my van, but when I'm done with that and dinner, I'll post some information that you may want to consider regarding this whole matter. And good luck on it all! From what I am personally gathering about this whole thing, this guy did this intentionally to defame you, and if he did, being a direct competitor, there are certain ramifications that PayPal must consider in this claim as well as the fact that he makes it evident that he knew, or there was reason to believe he knew exactly what he would receive. But, I'll expound later when I'm done with everything else.

 

Ok,

Now I don't really follow these things as I have no interestt in the new dollar coins but is this true?

"CONGRESS HAS PASSED THE END OF THE EXISTANCE OF THE EDGE LETTERING DUE TO SO MANY ERROR PROBLEMS WITH THE EDGE INSCRIPTIONS"

Could Congress ever change the ruling?

Yes, I'm picking this idiiot's auctions apart. Can I get a little feedback here for Magman's sake?

clembo

 

edge lettering

Edge lettering info

http://coins.about.com/b/2007/12/27/presidential-dollar-edge-lettering-change-becomes-law.htm

 

Wow, let us know for sure !!!

 

Well Jack, like you said, he won automatically.
Its like they didnt even read it...

So it'll be an auto-refund once I get the item back.

Now the thing to do is try and not get a negative! lol
I can offer the item up to the next person, with a second chance offer... so i'll do that once I get it back.

 

Maybe you should write a letter to the editor of CW and/or NN just to give ebay some bad press but to also let people know the good work CT people are trying to do here by educating ebayers from scammers.

Oh, and you got the shaft

 

So whose job is it to round up all the existing Prez dollars with edge lettering so they can get rid of the edge lettering? :whistle:

Oh, wait. He didn't mean Congress outlawed the existance of edge lettering, did he? Did he really mean that the IGWT motto was being moved from the edge to a face of the coins next year?

 

It's amazing how long some things take! I find it interesting that PayPal made such a decision so quickly. Now, there are a few things to consider here:

1) You have a legal contract with the purchaser. This contract (which I have already printed out and converted to .PDF format if you "need" it. When legal inquiries ensue, eBay has a habit of deleting the listings in question.) includes a Returns clause, which states a seven (7) day return for refund. Third party interference with this contract *MAY* be a criminal act in your state.

2) Both you and the purchaser have contracts with eBay (the Venue) and PayPal (the Transmitter of Money). eBay and PayPal have a mutual interest in each other's corporate well-being. eBay owns PayPal, and thus a conflict of interest may occur in varied situations. Their contracts with you and the purchaser differ. The contract that eBay has with the purchaser is a revised contract. The Purchaser pointed this fact out (Power Seller). eBay has more to gain financially by catering to the Purchaser. The Purchaser makes it clear that their contractual position as a powerseller lends them some form of power or influence with the venue (eBay) that you do not have ("So for all these reasons we feel as a good standing powerseller of ebay we will warn others of your practices.") The whole censoring of the SGS problem with eBay forums for "warning others" shows that this person believes they have certain exemptions and rights that you do not have, not having a "PowerSeller" contract.

3) PayPal, as well as eBay, offers dispute resolution. However, the terms of the contract have not yet been met for a refund. The purchaser has breached the contract by attempting to enforce refund prior to fulfillment of return. Again, PayPal has interfered with interstate commerce, as they have complete access to the contract and can plainly see the terms of refund. As well, PayPal also has access to the contract in full. Even in statute law, latter entered Sections and Paragraphs may nullify, change, or repeal earlier stated claims. There is no difference in contracts.

4) The Purchaser has admitted that he has read the entire contract. "Your description was deceptive.You only get the full story about you saying the description was wrong as you read your full ad." Yet, he makes the earlier statement, "Your ad was also very deceptive and got past one of my buyers." He has admitted that he has committed contractual fraud by misrepresenting to you the identity of the individual you were dealing with. If he is claiming this individual as an employee, then the employee must have full authorization to have entered the contract on the company's behalf. If not, then that particular individual may be guilty of a crime. Notwithstanding anything else the Purchaser claims, his correspondence with you makes it clear that whoever bid on the auction did in fact have authorization, and thus is held to the contract as a whole. the Purchaser also further admits that his company's representative entered into the contract

5) The Purchaser confirmed the contract "at the last moment". Then, after receiving the item *AS DESCRIBED IN THE CONTRACT*, made a threat to conduct himself in such a manner so as to impair your business. He sure better hope those coins show up in your mailbox! I'll explain this later.

6) eBay (the venue), PayPal (the Transmitter of Money), and the Purchaser (the PowerSeller), have a mutually beneficial business relation, a business relation that differs from yours, and thus places such relationship in a situation of possible conflict of interest with regards to the "claim".

Now, let's look at the possible legal ramification in Arizona.

This is where The whole PayPal/eBay/PowerSeller scheme has a problem. Taking into consideration, #6 and #3 and #2 must be considered. If, in fact, the decision was made because of the PayPal/eBay/PowerSeller love triangle, then more than *somebody* is in big trouble. PayPal is also a Transmitter of Money licensed in the State of Arizona. Violation of this statute is cause for them to lose their license in that State.

The Purchaser, rather than abiding by the contract the two of you entered into, breached the contract and utilized a third party arbitrator to obtain money from you. At this moment, the Purchaser not only obtained real property from you, but utilized an interested third party that he has an indirect AND direct beneficial agreement with, in order to obtain that property at no cost and in breach of your contract. Furthermore, the Purchaser has made a threat to impair your business in the future. Keep the communications open with this person!!! If the roll does not show back up to you and he makes any further claims of leaving negative feedback if you keep inquiring, he very well may be in violation of your State's laws.

What I would do at this time, is compile a letter to the Arizona Attorney General's office. Do not get into anything *parody* or *infoauction* or anything else like that. Stick to strict contract! The individual breached his contract, then utilized the services of the Transmitter of Money to further breach the conditions of the contract, and now has both the money AND the roll! Also, inform the AG that this person has threatened to impair your business and person. Also, bring up the fact that you have differing contracts with the venue (eBay) as well as the Transmitter of Money, and that you believe, not only because of the suddenness of the decision made by the Transmitter of Money, but also because of the breaching of contract with the Purchaser, that the transmitter of money, as such with their contract with the Purchaser and their conduct in this matter, may be depriving you of honest service, by knowingly interfering with a legal contract between you and the Purchser, which the Purchaser had clearly breached the conditions of.

Forward a copy of this letter to the Postal Inspector's office with a cover letter explaining that you fear the rolls may not have been sent, and that the Purchaser may attempt to continue to defraud you by sending you a falsified package, or no package at all. If/when you do receive any package from this seller, DO NOT OPEN IT! Take it to your post office, and ask the Post Master to witness the opening of the package along with a witness to verify the contents thereof. Explain in the letter to the Postal Inspectors that this is your intent upon receiving the package and request a case number so the Post Master can follow up with the case.

THEN, forward a copy of both letters to the Attorney General's offices of both California as well as the State of the Purchaser.

It is better to be seen as paranoid than to be proven stupid.

As a final step, send PayPal AND eBay a polite notice via email. Explain to them that you have contacted the Attorney General's office in your State as well as the Postal Inspector's office regarding the conduct of the particular PowerSeller and your mutual contract, and PayPals sudden decision to interfere with this contract. "Notify" them that they are to cooperate fully with inquiries from both the AG's office as well as Postal Inspection, and grant them permission to contact you if they need any further information regarding the case. As a side note, mention that the information has also been forwarded to the AG of California and the State of residence of the Purchaser.

Make sure in your letters to the AG and Postal Inspector that you "seek no restitution in this matter, but simply seek to see that this does not happen to anyone else." This IS VERY IMPORTANT!!! (read statute 13-1804A5: "5. Accuse anyone of a crime or bring criminal charges against anyone.") In doing all this, it must be made clear that you seek no restitution.

Seeing justice served itself is restitution enough in most cases.

Hopefully this Purchaser isn't all *that* bad and will actually send the coins back, and have his name placed on a few lists in the various AG offices, so when something REALLY bad happens, they already have a bit of information.

Have a good weekend! Chew on all this a bit. Not everybody is willing to make a fuss, but, I have said repeated times, AGs, Postal Inspection, FBI, everybody is there for a reason, and people need to start utilizing them.

 

Great stuff, but you had indicated in an earlier post that you had information that this was done on purpose to eliminate competition...where is that information.

I may have misunderstood your intentions, but was hoping for something a little more juicy than the legal stuff, lol

 

Good stuff NP.

I especially like point number 4.

"4) The Purchaser has admitted that he has read the entire contract. "Your description was deceptive.You only get the full story about you saying the description was wrong as you read your full ad." Yet, he makes the earlier statement, "Your ad was also very deceptive and got past one of my buyers." He has admitted that he has committed contractual fraud by misrepresenting to you the identity of the individual you were dealing with. If he is claiming this individual as an employee, then the employee must have full authorization to have entered the contract on the company's behalf. If not, then that particular individual may be guilty of a crime. Notwithstanding anything else the Purchaser claims, his correspondence with you makes it clear that whoever bid on the auction did in fact have authorization, and thus is held to the contract as a whole. the Purchaser also further admits that his company's representative entered into the contract"

Personally I will still list the occasional infoauction. I DON'T use Paupal and if someone wants to fight over a $3 coin then go for it. When the coin is back in my hands I'll give you a refund.

You made SO many good points NP. Magman, print and read them religiously. You have a lot of ammunition here.

clembo

 

On that, I agree fully !!

 

holy moly... thanks

but one thing that is not correct in what you said, is that I clicked the option so that Paypal will automatically refund the money, once the item is Received!
So actually, I have his money, and he has my coins. Then, since he has to use a delivery confirmation thing, once paypal sees that the item has been delivered, the money will be taken out and transfered to him.

But that is a very good idea with the postmaster observing the opening of the package and such.

 

Mag, I would immeadiatly empty my paypal ASAP !!!!!!!

Then, YOU have the ball, and if buyer is playing, or has cherry picked you, you have some control....you can also email PP and tell them that you want to inspect the return BEFORE you refund anything.

 

Think Paypal will get back to me in time?

(and did you get my PM?)

 

Either this guy doesn't know as much about coins as he claims or this ad is downright fraudulent. Who would mistake a "crack head" die crack for an ultra rare die clash. He wants $29.99 for a die crack.


http://cgi.ebay.com/2-1952-P-WHEAT-...goryZ524QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think we should all help educate him about this one and see if the ad changes at all.

Richard

 

Here's the message I just sent him. Think he will respond?



You have identified this item as a rare die clash when it is actually a very common "crackhead" die crack. I have 16 of them, care to buy any?

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Description of his auction:

2 - 1952 P WHEAT OBVERSE DIE CLASH ERROR BETWEEN WE
EXTREMELY RARE TO FIND TWIN ERRORS FROM THIS DATE 1952

Now I ask that you answer this before you go and read his description. HOW MANY COINS ARE YOU BIDDING ON?